GTRadio351 Book Yuck, Book Yum

Book Yuck, Book Yum

#351: Josué, Marc, and Link discuss books, what makes us fall in love with them, or bounce off them completely.


Marc Cuiriz 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. I am one of your very lovely co hosts Marc Cuiriz. And I am joined by Josué Cardona.

Josué Cardona 0:27

Marc Cuiriz 0:30
And Link Keller.

Link Keller 0:31

Marc Cuiriz 0:34
All right, Josué. It’s your turn this week, I think I think you’re the one who said this who’d like shoved Lara’s idea. You’re like, no, no, that’s next week, I want to do this.

Josué Cardona 0:44
Lara has no power here. So I’ve been reading a fiction book for the first time in a long time. I am doing the whole Goodreads reading challenge thing I, I said, I’m going to read a book a week gonna do 52 this year. And so far, I’m ahead of schedule, according to Goodreads. But that’s because I’m mostly listened to, to nonfiction, which are often shorter than then some fiction books. But I’m, I’m on my first fiction book of the year, but I wanted to read it for a while. And it just it reminded me of that one time that I said on here that Ready Player One was one of my favorite novels. And link just looked at me with such judgment and disappointment. And it just it just, it just hurt so much to be rejected so hard. And it just, ugh, the yucking of my yum was so painful.

Link Keller 1:53
I do admit to that I yucked, I yucked that yum pretty hard. Even I’m pretty sure I apologized at the time. But for the record, I apologize. It was not kind or understanding of me to yuck that yum.

Josué Cardona 2:09
It just hurts so much.

Link Keller 2:12
I still don’t like Ready Player One. But I’ve actually through you and our conversations have come to appreciate what it is, which is very valuable in our conversations. So

Josué Cardona 2:24
Right. It’s like I get the critique, I don’t disagree with the with the critique. But this is part of what I want to get to. Later on, which is, you know, like, we can like books for different reasons. And this isn’t a book, but I remember watching rewatching back to the future recently, and thinking Marty sucks as a character.

Link Keller 2:46
he’s a real stinker

Marc Cuiriz 2:47
yeah Honestly,

Josué Cardona 2:48
and there’s so many movies, I’m like, I enjoyed this movie, but when I try to look at it as like, oh, do I like these characters? So many times like No, not at all, right? And I’m all about the world building, I want to know, I want to know what the magic system is like, I want to know what the technology is I want to know, you know, the culture, how things work, that’s, that’s something that I enjoy. So like, Ready Player One is a nostalgia fest. Like, I it was, it was like a dream come true to imagine all of these things happening at one time. I don’t I like at the time, I was so excited about that I wasn’t even paying attention to the the narrative of, you know, like the tropes that this this character is going through. But going back to the rejection, and the triggering of my abandonment issues, by Link Keller i i That’s one of the reasons why we do what we do. Like the origin story of geek therapy is all about that. It’s about having people, you know, and in usual context of what we’re talking about, right? And in some kind of therapeutic relationship, some kind of intimate relationship where something that you that you like, and you really appreciate is rejected. So I want to kind of jump into a few different things. One is just overall, why is reading good for you? Right, just that, like the basic the basics on that, just so I know that it’s not happening anymore. I don’t think people are like, Oh, books, rots your brain, you know, but but that used to be a thing. I used to be a thing, you know, and I have had clients and I know people who you know that kid who’s reading books while walking down the street. You know, like you can’t get you can’t get them out of the book. Because they love it. And then if it gets to that point, some people are like, Oh, You know, why don’t you be more social? Or why don’t you put the book down and go play with a ball and it’s like uhh I’d rather read my book. So there is still that kind of, you know, rejection that can happen. So I want us to talk about how to, like, just be mindful of, of, you know, don’t yuck yums. And then the other end of that, hey, here’s some, some actual real benefits to, to just reading in general. And then also, in between there, those two we get like books for different reasons, like a book can have problematic aspects and but or just suck in certain senses, right? It’s like, oh, the writing literally typos and misspellings and the grammars, bad but like, Yeah, but like, I really enjoyed it, you know, like, you can enjoy it or it can be meaningful to you. So that’s, that’s kind of very simply explained. Topic for today. So this one’s for the book lovers out there. Do you guys do you guys read a lot?

Marc Cuiriz 6:22
You know, when, when I was younger, I used to read like all the time, it was always a thing where usually whenever the power would go out, and because the power would usually be out for a couple of days, sometimes I would just immerse myself in books. I would I would often, like stay up late and read a book. And then my mom would come in at like midnight and be yelling at me telling me to go to bed and like No, no, just one more chapter. But as I got older, I stopped reading as much, I think is just once I got introduced to the world that is a PC gaming that dominated my free time. And as I got more and more into video gaming, I just kind of turned away from books. And I think it was also just like, a bit of a burnout too. Like, you know, growing up, I had a lot of those expectations of like, well, I’m, you know, I was the smart, I was a smart child, I was the one that was always doing well. So I was doing a lot of these more academic things. And by the time I was like a junior in high school, I just kind of got burned out of it. I was like I don’t, I don’t want to read anymore. But I’m slowly starting to get back into reading. I think I’ve mentioned it a couple of times already. But my wife and I, we tend to read a book together. Right now we’re reading a book called wayward for like one of our book clubs. So we’re reading that together, which is nice. It’s I think having somebody there to share the story with and also how to have discussions with about the story is is a nice thing for me because it helps keep me engaged because I’m very picky with my books. If I if a book doesn’t catch me right away, then I get bored with it. And then it just kind of throw it off to the side and say, Yeah, I’ll finish that later. And then I never finish it. I have a plethora of books in my bookshelves that I’ve started and have never finished.

Josué Cardona 8:28
You don’t have to finish them DNF them.

Marc Cuiriz 8:32
It’s not that like I it’s not like I’ve just like said like, No, I don’t want to finish this book. No, it’s just that like, it’s like, I’ll get back to it. I’ll get back to it. And then I just don’t I don’t get back to it. I just forget about it. And then I forget where I leave off. And I don’t want to start all over again.

Josué Cardona 8:48
I know Marc, I know what you mean. How’s wayward?

Marc Cuiriz 8:54
so far, It’s pretty good. It’s, it’s kind of it’s a different thing for me because I’m very much a person that likes when it’s clearly defined in terms of like how the story is I like it being more like continuous and linear feeling like it’s more smooth. And this book it it tells three different stories. And each chapter it switches between the three main protagonists, but they’re also in different time periods, like one is set in 2019. One is set in like 1942. And the other one is set in like the 1600s. But they’re all connected because they all have the same lineage. So like they’re all related. They’re all descendants of each other. But like it tells each of their different stories and like how they’re connected to the theme that I’m pulling from so far because we’re only like a quarter of the way into the book. But the connecting theme seems to be nature there. These three characters are very in tune with nature. So I’m interested I’m excited to see how it turns out at the end.

Josué Cardona 10:00
So what do you like about it? Other than how it resembles Assassin’s Creed?

Marc Cuiriz 10:08
You know, I didn’t, I didn’t think about the Assassin’s Creed link right there. But you might have a point there.

Josué Cardona 10:16
For, like, what do you what are you talking about now?

Marc Cuiriz 10:21
But the thing is, is that like, it’s not like she’s like the, it’s not like they’re reliving it, it’s just like, This is how all these people are like, they’re connected in some way, shape or form. Yeah, across generations of like, you know, they’re rediscovering their, their heritage or their lineage, things like that. But what I think what I like about it is, it’s, it seems like very much like a, like a historical fiction and like a, like a typical fiction, like, slice of life fiction. But it’s, it’s giving this more magical sense to it. So it’s, it’s like giving you a little bit of fantasy as well. So it’s like, accurate to the time periods, like when it switches to the character in the 1600s. Like, it uses Old English and it’ll use old English spellings of everything, too. So sometimes it’s a little difficult for me to like, like, Wait, how do you say this word? I don’t know what this word means. But like the way the language will change, it makes it it kind of helps like pull you into what time period it is. And seeing the puzzle pieces slowly start fitting together as to how this overall story is panning out from 1600s to 2019. And how it’s all relevant together. I think that’s what I’m liking about it. It’s like, it’s giving you puzzle pieces and you’re slowly starting to put it together yourself. Whereas in some, like a lot of the other books that I typically like to read, it’s kind of like a movie and you’re just kind of watching it like you can. I mean, I can’t visualize it, but I imagine people that are reading it can visualize what is happening and can see it playing out in their head like a movie.

Josué Cardona 12:04
aphantasia just so hard.

Marc Cuiriz 12:06
It really is.

Josué Cardona 12:09
Link Do you like books?

Link Keller 12:13
I fucking love books dog. Imma book fiend.

Josué Cardona 12:18
I know.

Link Keller 12:19
I saw I saw Tik Tok recently is like, okay, so there are bookworms and they are voracious readers, they’re always reading something new love to read. And then there are there are book dragons, which hoard books. And I am coming to terms with the fact that I am pretty evenly balanced in those two.

Josué Cardona 12:47
Does that mean that you buy a lot of them? You buy more than you read?

Link Keller 12:51
I buy a lot of books and wow, okay, I’ve lived here. Two years now I’ve lived in this house. And then like two and a half years that I’ve been up in Washington State. When I moved up here from Santa Cruz, like I had, I had moved a whole bunch in the years prior to that, and so it was constantly like thinning out my book collection, so that it’s feasible to actually move into a new place. And it’s like every time I move to a new place, it’s like Oh, I’m all settled in. I have my books on my bookshelf again. Time to buy more. There’s there’s a single empty space on my bookshelf. I’m gonna go to the bookstore. Oops, I bought eight books. I guess I better get another bookshelf. Now. There’s so much empty space on this bookshelf. I better buy more books. Fucking love books. I did definitely. While I was in grad school, I pretty much stopped reading for fun because I was reading textbooks and countless articles and my peers online journal posts and shit. I was like I was reading a ton but it wasn’t like for fun and enjoyment though I did often enjoy and have fun reading that stuff. But I definitely inherited my parents love of fantasy genre. And so I have a ton of fantasy books. I still read a bunch of fantasy books expanded a little bit. I’m trying to get more into sci fi stuff more recently, and horror because I love it but I have found that like horror genre for books isn’t really like its own thing. It’s like fantasy with horror elements or sci fi with horror elements or historical fiction with horror elements and so There’s, it’s been interesting getting more into horror genre and sort of figuring out like, Okay, what what actually makes this its own genre and not just like we put a scary thing in this other thing, which is pretty fun. But uh, yeah, I’ve, um, I just finished a book yesterday. So I’m currently

Josué Cardona 15:22
what’s it called?

Link Keller 15:23
it’s called How to Sell a haunted house.

Josué Cardona 15:26
That book sucks and you’re a terrible person for reading

Link Keller 15:34

Josué Cardona 15:34
how’s it feel

Link Keller 15:34
it doesn’t feel great? but it’s also It’s not you’re not wrong. It’s unfortunate. No, it was okay. It was okay. I enjoyed it. I like haunted house stories I had just purchased and finished reading another book by the same author, Grady Hendricks called horrorstör, S T. O R and the OH has the two dots above it because it is a ghost story that takes place inside of an Ikea type business. And that one was really good. I really liked that one. How to Sell a haunted house was not as good, still enjoyable, not as good. I liked horrorstör a lot more. And then I’m about to start the next book on my on my TBR shelf, which is legitimately a separate shelf from my other book shelves because it was in one cubby on my on my cube shelf, and it got to full so I bought another shelf for just my to be read books. unhinged um. The next one on my on my shelf is a beautifully foolish endeavor, I think is what it’s called. It is the sequel to Hank Green’s debut novel, an absolutely remarkable thing which I read last year. I think I briefly mentioned it on the podcast. It’s about first contact. Aliens. It’s very cool. It’s got like, vaguely video gamey elements, which I really enjoy. So I’m interested to see how the sequel is I hope it holds up. We’ll see how it goes.

Josué Cardona 17:21

Link Keller 17:21
you didn’t, you didn’t tell us what book that you are reading.

Josué Cardona 17:24
Oh, the one I’m reading right now is called by Babel. B A B E L by R f Kuang. And it’s I’ve heard very good things about it on booktalk. And it sounded very interesting because it has a lot to do with languages. So the main characters all speak multiple languages, and actually the magic system and in this world, it works around languages and translation. And I never read a book where language was like the main thing it was great.

Link Keller 18:04
Have you ever read Snow Crash?

Josué Cardona 18:07
I have not read Snow Crash

Link Keller 18:09
Holy shit, dude, that book is gonna just blow your skirt up. You’re gonna love that book. You should definitely add that to your list because I think you will really really enjoy snow crash.

Josué Cardona 18:21
I’ve been recommended Snow Crash but never in the context of like, what I was talking about for this other book.

Link Keller 18:28
There’s overlap also, a fair amount of overlap with Ready Player One. So

Josué Cardona 18:34
how do you how Ready Player One?

Link Keller 18:37
Snow Crash is a sci fi book about a

Josué Cardona 18:40
no no, I got you. I got you. And then I thought you went between

Link Keller 18:42
VR Worlds.

Josué Cardona 18:43
Yeah, no, no, I knew that I thought you meant with between Babel. And ready player one like how

Link Keller 18:49
but yeah, there’s probably overlap, but Snow Crash? Seems like it would it would bridge those two books and you would really enjoy it.

Josué Cardona 18:58
I I will knock it up on my list. I will put it up higher on the list.

Link Keller 19:08
Look, the main character’s name is hiro protagonist. And if that doesn’t get you just a little intrigued all on its own. I don’t know what will.

Josué Cardona 19:19
Look, there’s a lot. The book has come up a lot, but I’ve just not just not done it yet. It’s hard for me to get into fiction and I’m trying i Even I too like the idea of books. I too. wouldn’t mind having more books on a shelf that I might never read. I I joined a subscription service for books now. Right where and not like Columbia House back in the day where he just ordered a whole bunch of books. Right? The one I joined is Illumicrate and so yeah, and so it’s got it’s got some cool stuff in it and then you never know what book it is. Yeah, but the books look beautiful. They’re so beautiful. And a part of that I was like, oh, at least to look good on my shelf. But I like the idea of like, okay, so many people are getting this book as a surprise. And you can read it and you know, you can join the community or not I like, you know, I’m on booktok now, so, you know, gotta gotta like,

Link Keller 20:25
it’s like a low stakes book club. Because it’s like, there’s a built in community of people who you know, all just got that book and maybe reading alongside you, but it’s like, you don’t you don’t have to. You don’t have to go to Nancy’s house and drink wine, and try and ignore her 18 dachshunds barking in the back room. This is a fun skit. I don’t know what I’m doing here.

Marc Cuiriz 20:48
I don’t know about you. But im here for the dachshunds

Link Keller 20:52
makes it harder to talk about books when you’re getting all the puppy love.

Marc Cuiriz 20:58
You’re getting jumped by puppies.

Josué Cardona 21:00
We geek therapy had a book club.

Link Keller 21:02
But illumicrate is really cool.

Josué Cardona 21:03
Yeah, we had a book club for a while. It was like a Patreon exclusive thing that we used to do. GT. It did not last very long. And it was all nonfiction. But it was I think the last month we actually did a video game. So it was more of a Media Club. At that point. Always want to go back to that. I think I think it’s, it would be fun. But yeah, so I’m reading Babel. I’m subscribed to some books. And yeah, I actually have a I have a scribd subscription, which is like a Netflix for books. And

Marc Cuiriz 21:40
I just cancelled mine.

Josué Cardona 21:41
for scribd?

Marc Cuiriz 21:42

Josué Cardona 21:43
And then I have audible. And I have multiple library cards. And so

Link Keller 21:49
Hell yeah, libraries!! WOO!!

Josué Cardona 21:50
Oh yeah. But I mean, it’s like, it’s almost like, I don’t know, when COVID happened, people caught on. And now the waiting lists for books are way longer than they used to be. So so it’s harder. So I actually, I ended up, I used to always just check the library first. Now, I sometimes I think I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even check anymore. I check scribd first. And if it’s not there, then I’ll go to Audible. And if it’s not an audible, then I’ll check. And I’ll get the ebook version and then have my my phone read it to me. I somewhat robotic voice because we’re in the future. And I enjoy that. Yeah, so I’ve got a few. I mean, there’s, there’s a few books that I want to read that are that have been popular in the last year. So we talked about a few, about the trilogy that I really want to read. It starts with Gideon the Ninth, right? That’s the first one in the series. Yeah. What’s the trilogy called?

Link Keller 22:52
is called the locked tomb series because it was supposed to be a trilogy and the author did it. Oops. So they’re the fourth book is coming out. Probably next year.

Josué Cardona 23:05
Got it.

Link Keller 23:06
But yeah, the locked tomb series. Love it. I talked about on the podcast before I sent a copy to a friend that I had postit noted in highlighted lines and stuff. And I sent it to her and she’s almost done reading it totally loves it. I’m so chuffed about that. Like, I checked in like today, I was like hey, how’s that going? And she’s like, I love it. I’m almost done. I was like, yes. Yes, I’m riding a high of recommending books to people and then them reading it and being like, I fucking loved that book. Thank you.

Josué Cardona 23:46
So what what is it about that book? And you said it’s like, are those your favorite? Is that your favorite series of books at the moment?

Link Keller 23:52
Right now? Yeah, probably.

Josué Cardona 23:54

Link Keller 23:57
Oh, okay, so we’ve we’ve talked about this before, a sort of loose framework of how people engage with books, stories, is, people either really enjoy characters, they really enjoy plots, or they really enjoy world building. And obviously, people enjoy all of them. It’s just you know, which one’s your first place pick basically. Yeah. And I think for me, it’s characters and then world building. And the characters in Gideon the ninth are great because it’s there’s lesbians, there’s sword fighting, there’s magic necromancer users there’s there’s women who are really mean and I love that. And then it’s the first book is got like a sort of mystery escape room element. to it, which I really enjoy, because there’s like almost a puzzle aspect to it where you’re like trying to figure out like what the fuck is going on. This series gets exponentially more confusing in that way, but in in a way that I really enjoyed and was like fun to like chew over and read people’s theories. And I got Jessica to read the series and so getting to talk with her about it, I got my friend, Jhett read and Gideon and Shelby is reading you’re finishing Gideon now and then my friend Remy, we listened to it, audio, Gideon, the ninth on audiobook together. And so it’s like having somebody to like, share, like, what do you think is going on here? Like who? Somebody’s doing murders? Who do you think the murderer is? Like, what’s going on? What’s the secret to this locked door like ooh oooooh. And so there’s something very enjoyable about having that and because the books are new, but a couple of years out there is like a fandom built around it already. And so getting to just sort of like, look up, like, what are people saying, you know, what are the main theories that people have? And, you know, who does the community really love? And who do they love to hate and all that stuff, and it’s really fun to engage with that. I haven’t really gotten that much into a books fandom since Game of Thrones when I was spending a unhealthy amount of time in the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit. Just truly torturous. But yeah, I really I really love the characters is the main thing.

Josué Cardona 26:48

Link Keller 26:49
All this extra stuff goes with it.

Josué Cardona 26:50
Exactly. Exactly. Why do you like it? characters, and everything else.

Link Keller 26:57
Why do you like it? Well, there’s a sword wielding lesbian who’s very snarky and a little bit stupid. And that, turns out, is my type.

Josué Cardona 27:11
So I, and I want to ask you about the book specifically. Because when when Marc said that, like, the book that he’s reading is like a puzzle. I was like, I think that’s an element of, you know, like, trying to figure out what’s happening. And at least I mean, I thought I felt that that was like one of the things that I liked about Ready Player One also, which was like, Oh, just like

Link Keller 27:33
it was a puzzle, that was the best part.

Josué Cardona 27:34
It was multiple puzzles.

Link Keller 27:37
Solving puzzles.

Josué Cardona 27:38
Yeah. Yeah. And that was fun to go through. I once wrote about how Game of Thrones was like, I forgot the term from the research, but it was like it was like, cognitively engaging. Because, like, because of the cognitive load, like you needed to you were keeping track of so many characters across so many different places.

Link Keller 28:02

Josué Cardona 28:03
Like Marc your example, right? You’re across different timelines, right? Like, time periods,

Link Keller 28:09
the three characters in the three different timelines.

Josué Cardona 28:11
Yeah, but in but in like Game of Thrones, it’s like, you got the whole world. And all these, you got this huge cast of characters, and they’re traveling right from one place to another. And I know that you know, there are other like, epic stories like that. But just, I think that that’s part of the fun of it, right? It’s like, then you do have to, that’s when you’re going into wikis, and you’re asking questions, and you’re taking notes, because you’re like, wait a minute.

Link Keller 28:36
One of the really fun things about engaging with a song of ice and fires fandom is because that’s where people got really into the nitty gritty of like, in this chapter, this character sees this event. And then in the next chapter, we get a different character’s viewpoint. And how do you cross reference those in to try and figure out like, what’s actually happening, who is being, you know, is like, the character says something as like, objective fact. And you’re like, hold on. Now. They’re a little second. Now. I think that that was an emotional response from this character. And it’s like, oh, you caught me I have trauma. And getting to sort of pull on those threads and figure out how all of these pieces sort of tapestry wove together at the same time is like, really getting emotionally invested in in characters, and then being afraid that something bad is going to happen to them because

Josué Cardona 29:34
nobody’s safe

Link Keller 29:34
that happens a lot. Nobody is safe. Well, very few people are safe. And so that was a lot of the enjoyment is having the different perspectives like I grew up really loving the animorph series, which I’ve actually started rebuying to have my own collection. I’m out of control! but the thing With the animorph books as each book has a different point of view character of the six teens in the group, and so is like very much like preparation for fantasy novels as I got older is reading is like, sort of figuring out like, which character is telling a story to you changes the way that you understand the story and then like extrapolating that and applying it to a real life and being like, oh shit, people have individual point of views. And I don’t have all the contextual information to understand where they’re coming from completely. So I have to do a lot of guesswork. It’s good stuff.

Josué Cardona 30:39
It’s interesting. The other day, I saw a tiktok about Animorphs and

Link Keller 30:43
[whispers] I fucken love Animorphs.

Josué Cardona 30:44
And the person said that pretty much like every book was written by, like, there were multiple authors that wrote the books, right? Because they wanted to write more and more of them. And so some of them felt very disconnected from others, right, like the, but but I was like, oh, then I’m like, why were they so popular? And, and my thought is, like, one maybe the characters but just like that world, right? The fact that these

Link Keller 31:08

Josué Cardona 31:08
this, this was happening, like, who cares? Who writes it? You know, I mean, that’s how I am with, like, Star Wars right now. Right? Like, there’s novels, and there’s comic books, and there’s TV shows and movies, and they vary greatly from I mean, I guess Marvel is the same thing, right? Like, people are just invested in that world so much that it’s cool. You can you can explore different different creative perspectives and different formats, even in different genres even because I think both both of those both Star Wars and. And

Link Keller 31:46

Josué Cardona 31:47
MCU. I was like, I was just talking about oh, what is it? Yeah, in the in the Marvel movies, they all have that, right. Like, oh, this is more like a thriller. This one’s a comedy. Having had like a, you know, like I said, comedy romance yet, but I’m sure those are just,

Link Keller 32:05
I mean, Wandavision.

Marc Cuiriz 32:07

Link Keller 32:07
Wandavision did it a little bit.

Josué Cardona 32:09
You’re right. You’re right. You’re right. Yeah. No, it was it was a sitcom for the first

Link Keller 32:14
four episodes. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 32:17
You’re right. Animorphs, I used to watch the TV show. I used to read. You said, so. So you said something about, like the collecting of the books, which I think I think in every hobbyist fandom, like you get to that dragon level, and you start buying more than you can possibly read, play, consume, build, whatever it is. I usually get to that point with stuff that I’m that I’m super into. Every time I’m like, not again, not again. But so I used to I used to read the goosebumps books, like I just want to like and I collected them all that I but at some point, like, I don’t remember if I actually read them all. I remember being so proud of that bookshelf. It was like the only collection of books that I that I collected. But I don’t I don’t

Link Keller 33:19
it’s like achievements, right? It’s like, it doesn’t really mean anything, but you feel accomplished. You did it.

Josué Cardona 33:29
But But

Link Keller 33:30
caught them all.

Josué Cardona 33:32
So yes, in the completion this sense, but like if we’re talking about a series, but if we’re talking about like, just different, like, for example, my Steam library is ridiculous, right? I’m like, oh, I want to play that I’m gonna play that much. I don’t know, I’ve played 5% of the games I have. And I don’t mean like finish them. I mean, like, just even played

Link Keller 33:52
installed and opened. yup, I have run program on 18 percent of the games I own.

Josué Cardona 34:00
I want to play this game, I try it out. I mean, and that’s one of those things where it’s, it’s because Steam sales are really cheap, and you get free codes and all this kind of stuff, but it’s like, I’m never I wouldn’t even know where to start if I wanted to play like, just random stuff that I didn’t know about. Cuz I stick with the ones that I do know. So I’m curious to see how this Illumicrate thing goes. With the books.

Link Keller 34:25
I’m legit. kind of jealous, Illumicrate did a locked tomb set. And the books are so beautiful. They’ve got like, the hard covers themselves have like an embossed image on them. And then the sleeve cover is double sided. So there’s like the normal print cover. And then if you turn it over, it’s got like a really cool artist picture. And like the gold edges on the pages and I’m like, fuck I want that and it’s like $400 dollars on ebay i’m like noooooooo

Josué Cardona 35:02
so I’m they they just did that with the priory of the orange tree and the other book and

Link Keller 35:08
this one also looks really good

Josué Cardona 35:11
they’re so beautiful and but I got into the game too late so now I’m watching like every single time I get an email it’s like what’s a special edition what’s coming but yeah I’ve also checked on eBay and the books are like three four or $500 for the set

Marc Cuiriz 35:30
see I don’t know about you guys but I feel like I’ve I am a coalescence of all three of these things I am a dragon link what was the other one dragon what was the other

Josué Cardona 35:43

Link Keller 35:44
book worm and book dragon

Marc Cuiriz 35:46
book? Yeah, I am. I was I am both a bookworm a book dragon and a completionist when it comes to my my most beloved series guys, Percy Jackson. Now here guys, let me let me tell you guys a thing or two.

Link Keller 36:05
Do you have more than one set?

Marc Cuiriz 36:08
Yes, I have the original

Link Keller 36:10
yes! i love to hear that, mmm!!

Marc Cuiriz 36:10
that I have. I have the original, the original set. And I’ve then bought that the updated artwork box set for the original series. And then I think they did a third, like rendition. It’s like more old school type art. More retro, I think. And I want it so bad. Because I started rereading it. Because my first, my original ones, they’re there, they’re gone. They’re I touch them, they’re gonna disintegrate so they’re not leaving the shelf. So I started rereading, and when I reread them, I was reading through the box set. So now they’re a little you know, they’re used lovingly. And so now I just need a third set. Just for the beauty. Just for the beauty and this this is what drives me. This is what drives me crazy. For the for the sequel series. I have all five books. And only one of them is paperback. The rest are all hardcovers and it drives me nuts. I cannot find the hardcover version of this book for to save my life. I cannot find it anywhere. It drives me

Josué Cardona 36:12
which one? which one are you missing?

Marc Cuiriz 36:42
the Mark of Athena.

Marc Cuiriz 36:52
And is there a? Is there just the two is the original trilogy and in the sequel series or?

Marc Cuiriz 37:45
No, this man has written a lot of books. Well, in terms of the Percy Jackson universe, there is the original trilogy, the original series, which is five,

Josué Cardona 37:57
okay, five.

Marc Cuiriz 37:58
Then we have the sequel series, which is another five. Then there’s a crossover between a trilogy he wrote, and the Percy Jackson series. So that’s three. And now and then there was a whole other series focusing on Apollo, but it’s still set in Percy Jackson is a world. That’s another five.

Link Keller 38:21
So 18

Marc Cuiriz 38:23
And he’s coming out with a second sequel series that’s now returning to just Percy. And that is coming out I think next year. It’s Percy Jackson, and the chalice of the gods. And I think this is like the last who’s gonna write Oh, I think he wrote I think he just wrote a book now about Nico and will so that’s

Link Keller 38:47
19, 20

Marc Cuiriz 38:49
Yeah, that’s 20 that are that’s that’s out right now.

Josué Cardona 38:52
And he’s he’s it’s a series he announced the whole series

Marc Cuiriz 38:56
the Percy Jackson the child of the gods. That’s that’s going to be his last Percy series.

Josué Cardona 39:01
That’s just the first book of the series?

Link Keller 39:03
for now.

Marc Cuiriz 39:03
Yes. That’s coming out soon.

Josué Cardona 39:05
he’s keep going for a while. Yeah, yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 39:08
And you know, then then there’s the Disney plus show that I think is gonna start coming out next year. Like I just I own it. I’ve read it. I’ve reread it. I’ve reread those books. I don’t know how many times it’s just just it’s like, that’s that’s my that’s my my lot my lost treasure.

Josué Cardona 39:30
So is Is it easy for you to read? And I’m asking because the ADHD stuff like I cannot read anything. I can’t take sometimes even subtitles I’ll just I’ll fall asleep.

Marc Cuiriz 39:44
Oh, yeah. No, it’s because because the target audience is geared towards like middle schoolers, at least like the original series is. It’s pretty it’s it’s it’s very fast paced, but is in I can relate to Percy because

Josué Cardona 40:03
you’re a middle schooler?

Marc Cuiriz 40:03
basis of. Yes, exactly.

Link Keller 40:07
Because you’re, you’re the child of a Greek god. obviously.

Marc Cuiriz 40:12
100% yeah. Well, okay, you’re not supposed to broadcast that. No, it’s because like they, they, they, they make it that, because he has ADHD and because he’s dyslexic. That’s what makes him special. That’s what makes him unique. Because these skills like these, what we would say are disorders. That’s the source of their power. That’s what that’s what that’s what keeps them able to do the things like they say like the ADHD, no, that’s your, your, your body has built in like combat, like you’re geared for combat. So like, that’s okay, that’s, that’s your reflexes that’s gonna keep you alive, when you have to fight is because you can’t sit still. And the dyslexia is like, no, because your brain can’t. It’s harder for your brain to process English. It’s hardwired for for ancient Greek. So you can read ancient Greek perfectly.

Josué Cardona 41:11
so the books say these things explicitly?

Marc Cuiriz 41:14
Yes. Okay. And so then they go to the camp or to to hone those skills to refine them to, you know, obviously get better at using them, right. But that’s why a lot of them can. That’s why when they say like when demigods are like, running away, or on their way to the camp, they have the natural ability to start fending off the monsters because of these built in reflexes that they have. So I think it’s really cool that the main character is, like he has ADHD, I have ADHD, and he’s able to do all these cool things. Because of that, and that’s what’s keeping him alive. That’s what that’s what makes him unique and special in this world. And of course, being the son of Poseidon, but you know, that’s besides the point.

Link Keller 42:07
How, how old were you when you first read Percy Jackson?

Marc Cuiriz 42:12
I think because I think I started reading it and then I didn’t finish it when I was younger. So I went back to it I think when I was like 1415 Somewhere around there was in high school I was in high school and I just picked it up because you know, class took me there, you need to pick a book I was like, Okay, I’ll give this a try. And then I just fell in love with it. And I I like burned through that book so fast. And then I was going through and I finished the series and so then when the second series when the sequel series came out, like I’ve been following it ever since like I I’ve gone to book events for some of the books as well and just like just constantly just staying up to date on it all like I follow him on Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff so I can always get the latest latest news and all things Percy Jackson

Josué Cardona 43:08
Okay, I like this deep dive so Can you are you able to read other books just as easily I think is reading not a problem.

Marc Cuiriz 43:15
No, like I said like, I There are books that I can get into that are completely different than Percy Jackson. Don’t get me wrong. But for me because of the the attention part of it. The book needs to intrigue me it needs to get me like it needs to pose something or get me to think about it enough for me to be like I need to see what happens next and not just like skip to the end of the book and just like flip through and read the last page like no I want to figure this out or I want to learn more about it. It needs to get me relatively quickly if it if it doesn’t have a good attention getter within like the first I don’t know maybe 2030 pages maybe 50

Josué Cardona 43:56

Marc Cuiriz 43:56
then I it’s harder for me to get into it. So like when Link and I did the midnight library like when we did when we covered that book. I liked it because of the existential philosophical questions and things that it was bringing up like the topics that was bringing up because that’s what I really enjoy one book that Alyssa and I actually we decided to DNF it was bear town which on from what she had read on like Goodreads and what she saw on book talk everyone loved the book. I think we got like 7080 pages in and I was like I have one have no idea really what’s going two I it is this this book is moving like slower than molasses right now. Like I I can’t I cannot do this. I got I was bored. And I remember like stopping in the middle of a page. Because my my my train of thought just went completely somewhere else. I got preoccupied with that and she’s like she was like laying down and then she looked up at me and she’s like, Why did you stop reading? And I was like, what

Link Keller 45:04
we’re reading?? What??

Marc Cuiriz 45:06
I was like, wait, what? Oh. And I was like, yeah, no, I can’t do this book. Do

Link Keller 45:10
you? Do you read any nonfiction for fun?

Marc Cuiriz 45:16
I don’t really have a whole lot of time for reading.

Link Keller 45:19
That’s fair. I do. I do really love that you and your wife read to each other. I think that that’s, I said this last time, but I think that’s so romantic to have that.

Marc Cuiriz 45:29
I think it’s just her way of getting me to read again.

Josué Cardona 45:31
But you read to each other, or just like?

Marc Cuiriz 45:35
Well, yeah, well, well, typically. Yeah. Like I have like a little book light. So like, when she’s laying down, we’ll read like a chapter or two, and then we’ll put it away because I’m not going to read ahead when you know, she’s sleeping.

Josué Cardona 45:46
But one of you will read out loud. And the other one? ooh

Marc Cuiriz 45:50
Yeah, so like, like if I’m brushing my teeth, like if I’m in the middle of brushing my teeth getting ready for bed, she’ll be reading out loud. And then when she when I when I’m done, and I’m like, you know ready to look into the bed then I’ll take over and then I start reading until she falls asleep and then I will finish the chapter put it down and then we’ll pick it up the next day. Usually

Link Keller 46:09
my dear friend and her partner have a thing where he makes breakfast. And she reads to him while he makes breakfast. I think that that’s so sweet. I love it so much.

Josué Cardona 46:24
So regarding the not finishing a book, in terms compared to a movie or TV show or a video game, I feel like different in different mediums people deal with this differently. But are So Marc, you will stop reading a book if you’re not if you’re not into it, Link, will you do that? Yeah,

Link Keller 46:47
it’s took me I and I talked about this before it took me a long time to get to the point where I was okay with bailing out of a book I wasn’t enjoying at this point. I’m like trading rec’s with people. And so it’s like I have I have a bunch of like choice things. And then I have like a handful of books that I just saw at Goodwill and they’re cheap. And I was like well, I’ll check it out. haven’t read them yet. Though. That is how I got the the first Hank Green Book is that was a goodwill find that I saw it I was like oh Hank Green. I have mixed feelings about him. I wonder if his book is any good. And I looked at it. It’s a signed like first edition print. I was like, Well, okay, you’re coming home for me for $3 Even if the book sucks, I’ll just sell it to someone else but I actually really enjoyed it. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 47:47
When he’s the one that wrote that one, but his brother writes books too, right?

Link Keller 47:49
his brother does write books and I have not read any of I’ve not read a single John Green book.

Josué Cardona 47:55
Interesting. Yeah, I forget that Hank Green writes books.

Link Keller 47:59
I think it’s just the two this this two series Yeah, duology i don’t i He is probably going to keep writing that there’s fun to be had there. But, ya know, that was very much like an ongoing joke. He was like, hank green. No, the other green author number two. But yeah, no, that was that was a surprise find. But yeah, so I haven’t bounced out of a book recently. Because I’ve been mostly reading things that I really enjoy. I’m trying to think was last time I had to like, okay, so I am not great about reading nonfiction. I think it’s really important. And I try and do it. But it is harder for me to engage and set aside time to do that than it is for fiction books. Last year, I was reading, stamped from the beginning, which is a tome about the history of racism. Coming into America and becoming the basis for everything in America. Really important book, really interesting stuff, opened my mind to a lot of things. I had no idea about. recontextualized a lot of information I did have, it was so hard for me to get through it. I rechecked it out from the library like three four times. It took me months to get through that book. But I do think it was like really important. So I was like, even though I was definitely hitting the point where in a fantasy book, I’d be like, I don’t like this. I’m out. This is like this is important. I need to commit to it. I’m gonna finish this fucking book. I’m not returning you to the library without having actually got all the way to the end where the citation pages are I’m getting there. But that was definitely harder for me than with fiction, fantasy sci fi books.

Josué Cardona 49:54
yeah I think I mean, I love the idea. I just Learning is my fuel. So I’m constantly reading. Like if I if I get interested in a topic, I’ll read as many books as I can about it from different perspectives and authors. Usually, by the time I get to the fourth one, I’m like, I think

Link Keller 50:17
I’ve learned enough.

Josué Cardona 50:18
I think we’re all just saying the same things. But I think I think my it’s like the the attention span piece is that in a nonfiction book, even though the entire book is obviously related to one, topic, or theme, every chapter is dedicated to a particular idea. Where in fiction, there’s a there’s a longer story, unless it’s like a series of short stories, and then that and then that’s okay. But I think that’s why it’s easier for me to do a 16 hour nonfiction book that has, you know, every chapter is about an hour, but it’s like a kind of a self contained thought, or they build on top of each other in a way that is different than a 16 hour novel. Where you can’t just jump in the middle.

Marc Cuiriz 51:15
I think my, my thing is that when it comes to nonfiction books, like I’m not quite sure how to go about like, picking a nonfiction book, like I understand, like, if there’s a particular topic that I’m interested in, like, look up books that are pertaining to the topic, but like, I don’t, I don’t know. Like,

Link Keller 51:37
there’s a lot of bullshit out there. So you’re like, not wrong to be kind of like so how do I go about finding actually good stuff out here?

Josué Cardona 51:45
So go to Link for recommendations of fiction books come to me for recommendations of nonfiction books, and I will. I feel like it’s a superpower. I’ll have conversations with people. And they’ll bring up an idea and I’m like, check out this book or read this one. Or consider this one. Yeah, so let me know what what you’re curious about. What’s what’s ailing you? And I’ll see if I can think of anything. Not right now to put me on the spot. But

Marc Cuiriz 52:16
I agree. Now, the good thing you said that because I was just about to do it, do it. What

Josué Cardona 52:22
are you gonna Okay, man,

Marc Cuiriz 52:23
I was gonna say, okay, so I, because of the Midnight library, it’s peeking my philosophy brain here. So I was interested in wanting to learn a little bit more about existentialism as a therapeutic practice and a process in general just to be get even more familiar with it. Get more acquainted with it.

Josué Cardona 52:52
yeah I don’t know, I don’t know.

Marc Cuiriz 52:56
We got him.

Josué Cardona 52:57
You got me. You got me? Yeah, that’s like a textbook thing? I don’t know. I don’t know. I can’t think of

Marc Cuiriz 53:01
Yeah, And that’s where I’m like, I know, like, if I wanted to look at, like existentialism as a philosophy, like, yeah, there’s tons of philosophy books out there. But again, like Link said, like, I know, there’s there can be a lot of BS. So like, like I, you know, like, I could take the time and like, find a book, look at the author and be like, okay, like, review the author see, like, what are the credentials, things like that. But at the same time, it’s like, that’s a lot of work.

Josué Cardona 53:29
It’s funny, because if you, you read a novel, and the author’s bias comes through, in a way, but it’s still like, it’s still because of the narrative. It’s like, I guess, you know, like, you feel a certain way about it. But when it’s a nonfiction book, like, that’s just someone’s opinion, on something, and I mean, and that applies across the board, right? Like even in the mental health space, you have books. People just have their own way of looking at the world, literally theoretical orientations and then adaptations of that and interpretations of that. And the psychology research is amazing. Like, don’t read a What’s this guy’s name? The Stanford Prison Experiment, Zimbardo, like don’t read a Zimbardo book. That guy, I mean, it’s just his view of the world. But it’s, it’s also interesting to see sort of, the zimbardo book just to see how some people think. Yeah, it’s like, yeah, no, you know, yeah, you’re right. female teachers have reduced masculinity somehow. And that has affected the same way. That Yep,

Link Keller 54:48
Marc, I would suggest you go to a library and ask a librarian because they have the good rec’s and they’ll be able to point to something feel like this is more in line, what you’re looking for sort of like basic overview ideas, not a textbook necessarily, but like, more broadly explaining ideas. And then after that, you’re gonna want to read this one which deep dives into that one thing that you’re really into.

Josué Cardona 55:19
Or since it’s 2023

Link Keller 55:20
I love librarians

Josué Cardona 55:21
I love I love librarians who

Link Keller 55:23
or book tok. There’s a lot of great resources out there.

Josué Cardona 55:27
But also it’s 2023. So you can just ask chat GPT to explain existentialism, in the literary style of Rick riordan. That’s right. And, and actually, you can take it one step further and say and say, pretend that you are Percy Jackson, and talk to him and teach me about existentialism.

Link Keller 55:52
I actually I want you to do this so much

Josué Cardona 55:56
I’ve done

Link Keller 55:56
I just wanna see what happens

Josué Cardona 55:56
I’ve done stuff like this, right, where, where this is, I mean, this is this is, let me just recap that I think I think we covered the things I wanted to cover. And it’s like, I wanted to take a deep dive into into books, like why they’re meaningful, the different ways that people appreciate books, so like, don’t yuck people’s yums. Right. Like, there may be like, we may like the same book, even for completely different reasons, or dislike them for completely different reasons. But this idea of engaging with community and all that, right, I mean, it applies the same for books as it does with with other stuff that we talked about, video games Collector’s Edition, you know, that you just put on your shelf is just like a really, really nice book binding and etc. But this idea of interacting with fiction through something like ChatGPT like, I was showing my niece. What, like, how this worked, and she was, so her favorite character is Ahsoka Tano, from Star Wars. And I told ChatGPT pretend that you’re Ahsoka Tano. And tell me the events of and I forgot what it was. What story from your perspective? And it did. And like there’s no there’s that’s not written anywhere. Right? Like there is no Ahsoka’s perspective on that. But it was a very interesting way to interact with, with, with a character in a world.

Link Keller 57:01
I think that’s so cool. I love that. I think that’s interesting is how I’ve been seeing tiktoks About chat chat GPT, where people ask it, like, actual information and for sources and it makes up fake.

Josué Cardona 57:42

Link Keller 57:42
Citations. And so I I’m obsessed with the idea of Percy Jackson, teaching you about a philosophy that chat GPT makes up? Well, we’re starting a whole new branch here, guys, new philosophy just dropped.

Josué Cardona 58:01
Well, the funny thing is, like I recently did, I asked it to, like, help me write an email to justify going to a conference to my supervisor. And it did, it included everything that I wanted exactly how I wanted. And I said, you know, like mentioned three specific sessions that are that might be relevant to this topic. Those he made up, those made up the three sessions completely made up. And, but he was so convincing, though, but But it’s like, it’s little things like that, right? It’s like, it’s little details that like it doesn’t even have the information to pull from. So like a detail like that. It’s, um, it just, it just can’t. And but but I think that’s the most fun thing about it is that it, it is able to make things up. So when you look at it from that perspective, and you tell it to write you a story, or, you know, change the perspective on I don’t know, it’s pretty cool to see to see how that how that works. And it’s reading it’s not a book, but you could ask it to read through a book which is, which is a whole other thing.

Link Keller 59:12
Chat GPT will you do this year’s NaNoWriMo on my behalf 50k words you can do that right? easy.

Josué Cardona 59:21
but I mean, but we are getting to the point now. And this is again I think we’re completely off topic at this point and we’re wrapping up but but you can you can the easiest thing that we can do right right now is have it write a story for us catered to us. It’s still harder to like, we could have it make a picture that we want, right? We’re starting to get to animations, and and video. It can’t put all those together yet, but something like write me a story about Link and Marc going to the bookstore to buy books Find the hardcover of that one hardcover, that Marc can’t find. It’s a grand adventure and make it 15,000 words, I don’t know, it’ll, it’ll do it. You know, and you can just kind of it’s weird, like, imagine going to tik tok and just asking you what you want to see. And then it just gets created on the spot. I don’t know, our conversations about these things are gonna be very different in the future, if we, if we’re able to do stuff that’s catered, I don’t, I do not believe that we will replace authors and producers and directors and actors and all that stuff. But there’s still that part of like, just like we like Rolex, like life will have more elements like that. Where it’s like, Nah, just random. Make something up for me. You know, like, mix it up, and then you just get something completely different and also unique for you. It’s, um, the future is. Interesting. It’s looking interesting. Yeah. But it can still be meaningful. All the same things we’ve talked about with the books can can apply especially if it’s written for you. Like Percy Jackson. Sounds like it’s written for you marc.

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:14
oh 100%. I am Percy Jackson. You know, plot twist everybody.

Josué Cardona 1:01:19
Yeah. Oh, Marc PJ Queen ease now I get it. Yeah.

Link Keller 1:01:25
It’s all coming together

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:26
It’s all coming together, guys.

Josué Cardona 1:01:29
Okay, so are those are those are your favorite books? For sure. I just double check. Okay, and your favorite are still the what’s the series called again? the something

Link Keller 1:01:42
that locked to locked? That is That is my current favorite series. My my. Probably of all time favorite series is? Oh, gosh, what is the series called? Um, that’s one of the books just the first one is Rhapsody. It’s by Elizabeth Haydon. It’s like a mid 90s fantasy series that I started reading as a kid fell in love with it. I fell in love with it. I have read it every couple of years. Actually, we talked about this a couple of years ago where I discovered that there were three more books in the series that I had never I had never read and I was like what the fuck so I went and I got them on similar thing for like actual I don’t even know if they ever got like print published because I’m like where do I fucking buy this. But that’s I mean, those physical copies paperback copies cuz I want them to match. That’s my white whale at this point. But um, yeah,

Josué Cardona 1:02:50
yeah. Well, we did the same thing last week with the His Dark Materials trilogy. I was like, hey, there’s three more books like why?

Link Keller 1:03:01
Yeah, I got it. I gotta find those. Yeah,

Josué Cardona 1:03:05
yeah. Okay. All right. Well, this is a cool, deep dive into into books don’t yuck people’s yums there are many different reasons why I really liked meaningful

Link Keller 1:03:12
the takeaway here, I feel, don’t be like me, don’t make a stinky face when somebody tells you that they like a book that you’re not a fan of. Ask them what they like about it. Because that is going to give you such a juicy conversation. And that’s going to open up the ability to talk about other series and other books and make book recommendations, which is my favorite thing. But to understand more deeply, like what a person like the singular book doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. Like what about it resonates with you? What about it makes you light up that you would tell me like, Oh, I just read it, or that’s my favorite book. Like, I want to know why. So yeah, don’t be like me. Don’t make a stinky face, make a HMM? curious face, and then ask questions.

Josué Cardona 1:03:59
And hey, you open that door, and maybe you’ll be lucky enough that you’ll find out you both actually hate the same things about the book. And then you can also take a shit all over that book too. Yeah, you can do both.

Link Keller 1:04:14

Josué Cardona 1:04:14
All right. That’s a good takeaway. All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us. Remember for more conversations like this, you want to join conversations with our community. Links are in the show notes to our Discord or Facebook group. Email us, let us know what’s up. Join, come join the forums. For more Geek Therapy, visit geek therapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. Please send your reading recommendations. And we’ll be back next week

Link Keller 1:04:44

Josué Cardona 1:04:47
Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai and Link Keller

Characters / Media
  • Ready Player One by E Cline
  • Back to the Future (1985)
  • Wayward by D Spiotta
  • Assassin’s Creed series
  • How to Sell a Haunted House by G Hendrix
  • Horrorstör by G Hendrix
  • A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor by H Green
  • An Absolutely Remarkable Thing by H Green
  • Babel: An Arcane History by R F Kuang
  • Snow Crash by N Stephenson
  • Gideon the Ninth by T Muir
  • A Song of Ice and Fire series by G R R Martin
  • Game of Thrones series
  • Animorphs series by K A Applegate
  • Star Wars
  • MCU
  • Wandavision
  • Goosebumps series by R L Stine
  • The Priory of the Orange Tree by S Shannon
  • Percy Jackson series by R Riordan
  • The Midnight Library by M Haig
  • Beartown by F Backman
  • Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America by I X Kendi
  • Man(Dis)connected: How Technology has Sabotaged what it Means to be Male by P Zimbardo, N D Coulombe
  • Rhapsody by E Haydon
  • His Dark Materials trilogy by P Pullman
Themes / Topics

Conversation Topics:

* Burnout
* Change
* Cultural representation
* Difficult emotions
* Family
* Feeling alone
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* Resilience
* Standing up for oneself
* Trust
* Connection

Relatable Experience:

* Clarity/Understanding
* Coming of age/Getting older
* Fear/Anxiety
* Judgment

Questions? Comments? Discuss this episode on the GT Forum.

Links / Social Media

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