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Disney Villains

#24: What is it about villains that we are attracted to? They have become popular, if not more popular, than Disney heroes. More and more Disney movies and shows are highlighting their villains, even going so far as creating live-action adaptations of these principal characters. Ariel, Stef, and special guest Chance, dive deep into this question.

Read the blog post for this episode for additional references and resources.

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Transcription

Ariel Landrum 0:10
Hello, everyone, welcome to the happiest pot on Earth. I’m Ariel.

Stefanie Bautista 0:14
And I’m Stef.

Chance Calloway 0:15
And I’m Chance.

Ariel Landrum 0:16
And we’re Disney fans. But we’re really so much more than that.

Stefanie Bautista 0:18
Like I’m an educator who uses her passions and fandoms to help my students grow and learn about themselves and the world around them.

Ariel Landrum 0:24
And I’m a mental health therapist who uses clients’ passions and fandoms to help them heal and achieve from mental wellness.

Chance Calloway 0:30
And I’m a writer and filmmaker enamored with fantasy and the power of imagination, who is the accidental member of several fandoms.

Ariel Landrum 0:37
And Happiest Pod is a place where we dissect Disney mediums with a the critical lens.

Stefanie Bautista 0:41
And why do we do this? Because just like we are more than just fans we expect a lot more from the mediums we consume.

Ariel Landrum 0:47
So everybody would Disney medium are we dissecting today?

Stefanie Bautista 0:51
Well as seeing that last time, we talked about Spooky Season, we’re gonna dive a little bit deeper and talk about villains and what makes them fantastic and great. And

Ariel Landrum 1:02
Bumm bumm bumm

Stefanie Bautista 1:05
Yes, dun dun dun. Not purr purr purr, because it’s more like dun dun dun. And joining us is our good good friend extended family and welcome guests Chance.

Ariel Landrum 1:19
Yay.

Stefanie Bautista 1:19
Yay. Now we can go purr purr purr

Chance Calloway 1:23
Thanks for having me you guys. I’m really excited.

Stefanie Bautista 1:25
Yes. I feel like it’s a long time coming. We’ve been talking about having you on here. But it never came into fruition until now. So I’m super excited.

Chance Calloway 1:33
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 1:33
Yes.

Stefanie Bautista 1:34
Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit more about what you do Chance to give our listeners a little intro into the world of Chance?

Chance Calloway 1:42
Sure. I mean, it’s kind of more like what don’t I do? But…

Ariel Landrum 1:46
Touché.

Chance Calloway 1:47
For the sake of an intro? Yeah, I’m a filmmaker. I’m a storyteller. I’ve, I’m probably best known for my digital series Pretty Dudes, which I have now turned into a book, and an EP and all kinds of stuff like that. I love to write books. I write music. Yeah, I just I really love being able to build and create worlds, which I think probably stems from all the Disney movies I watch.

Stefanie Bautista 2:14
And he’s a fantastic singer.

Ariel Landrum 2:16
Yes. Yes. And dancer.

Stefanie Bautista 2:18
Yes. And dancer. And all around performer and creative. We love it.

Ariel Landrum 2:24
Yes, yes.

Chance Calloway 2:27
Thanks. I don’t dance that not much unless I’m dancing with you guys.

Ariel Landrum 2:31
So in talking about villains, I’m curious. Why do you all think that people like villains because I will say that there is a villains, takeover. Surgence? Fandom. There’s a whole community of people who that’s their jam. So I’m curious why you think that is? Because historically, villains have been the villain. The bad guy.

Stefanie Bautista 2:54
I mean, you’re wearing a villain shirt. Ariel from what I can see. So you’re definitely repping the set right now.

Ariel Landrum 3:01
Dress to impress.

Stefanie Bautista 3:03
Yeah, dress… Which is funny cause you’re wearing the Hocus Pocus shirt. And we talked about Hocus Pocus, last pod. Well whatever. But…

Ariel Landrum 3:10
It’s a callback.

Stefanie Bautista 3:11
It was a callback. It’s a callback, I like that we’re really creating our own worlds within this podcast. I love villains because without villains, there’s no story. I mean, they are flawed individuals, just like all of us. They’re super relatable once you get to think about why they are the way they are. And a really good villain serves as the perfect foil. It’s the perfect person to highlight the goodness of the protagonist. Also, it kind of you know, is a balance to the story. I think, whenever I’m, you know, talking about literature, especially in my classroom, and we’re talking about protagonists and antagonists, you need to find that balance in order to understand all aspects of the story at the most basic level. So I think focusing on the villain giving them as much attention as you are the protagonist is equally important to understand a story and where it’s going.

Ariel Landrum 4:01
Okay, how about you Chance?

Chance Calloway 4:02
Yeah, I, I was kind of mulling this over earlier and I think that what happens is, villains are almost like a blank canvas. You can make villains as interesting, as vibrant, as, as weird and unique as you want, because they’re going to be grounded by whoever your protagonist is.

Ariel Landrum 4:23
Okay.

Chance Calloway 4:23
And I think depending on the skills or the intent of whoever’s telling the story, sometimes that turns into the villains becoming the most interesting character. For many different reasons sometimes it’s because there’s a backstory that you can fill in you know yourself or sometimes just, you know, they have the best song or the best outfit.

Ariel Landrum 4:45
Very true.

Chance Calloway 4:46
Like I think you know, even just looking at superheroes as well as as well as you know, fairy tales. You know, you just have so many great villain characters, and you’re excited when they show up as this this villain has this guy kind of attitude. And I think that’s really easy to kind of latch on to as a viewer a fan.

Stefanie Bautista 5:05
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 5:05
Yeah. So I had attended a panel over a virtual online panel over the summer because we’re in a pandemic, at TAGGS, which is the Therapeutic Geek and Gaming Summit, Therapeutic Alliance Geek and Gaming Summit. We just kept saying TAGGS. It was a lot easier. And the therapist who was one of the first presenters had ‘Welcome to the Dark Side Exploring Villains and Their Use in Therapy.’ Therapist’s name is, I’m a butcher this up but I’m gonna try Maria LaquerreDiego. We’re gonna go with that. But Maria, she did a great job explaining why people like villains. And it’s the same thing that you all are saying. They’re flawed. They’re necessary in order to be able to have a hero. And they we can give them quirks, we can adapt them, we can change them, they get to be more vibrant, and fun, they’re more exciting. They’re almost larger than life. They have unlimited amount of resources. They live with a purpose and drive and they get their needs met without apology. And something that she mentioned in that training that really stuck with me was that disenfranchised individuals don’t get to live without apology. They don’t get to live with unlimited resources. They don’t get to be larger than life. And villains have these qualities that are essentially coveted and really, genuinely appreciated. More as a hero is rarely flawed, and usually often perfect for seeing heroes change now, and we’re also seeing villains change now, but when we think of someone who’s just born into heroism, for disenfranchised people, that is not something that could be seen or understood. To just be born and gifted with these things that make you essentially perfect and do no wrong. Instead, you really have to fight to cultivate those resources and harbor them and hold them close. So a villain really their narrative arc is a little bit more in aligned with people who don’t see themselves as someone that just naturally gets what they want.

Chance Calloway 7:09
Mm hmm. Yeah, I cosign that. I definitely think there’s a big overlap between how villians are represented and and how that interplays with people from like marginalized backgrounds. Also, kind of you know what I was saying about, like back back stores that you get to fill in yourself. Like, we don’t know why some villains are considered outcasts, or you know, what made them so feared. And if we know anything about human nature, it’s probably it’s probably no good reason.

Ariel Landrum 7:37
None.

Chance Calloway 7:39
That this person has been feared and outcasts.

Ariel Landrum 7:42
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 7:44
Like that was my connection with Scar. Like Scar was very clearly the gay uncle.

Ariel Landrum 7:49
Okay. Okay okay.

Stefanie Bautista 7:51
Yes.

Chance Calloway 7:52
They’ve never seen why Scar you know, is supposed to be terrible person. I’m like, “He is the gay uncle. So you guys don’t want him around that?” I understand that.

Ariel Landrum 7:59
Yeah, you you ostracized him, because he was different. And that, of course, made him feel ostracized. He was and literally even within the pride, he wasn’t living with their pride he was off on his own and that if we’re thinking of lions, and for thinking of those types of creatures, or just any animal, our herds gonna keep you safe. A prides gonna keep you safe community keeps you safe. So when your family and your community ostracize you, that really tends to be internalized and sometimes makes you vilify yourself.

Stefanie Bautista 8:33
Mm hmm. And I think yeah, listening to that narrative and seeing that there is a shift to finding out about the backstories of these villains with the resurgence of the live action. Maleficent. Cruella. Even, like, Once Upon a Time when we like found out about Regina, and like, where she came from, also, maybe even the success of Wicked, which isn’t a Disney story, I’m seeing that you know, people really connected to those marginalized storylines. I think that’s giving a new life and a new perspective and a new lens on what we view as a villain and understanding empathizing, even why they are the way they are. Instead of just writing them off as somebody who’s different.

Ariel Landrum 9:16
Yes, it goes back to you know, with villains being flawed, that’s more relatable to humans, because we are not perfect, we are flawed. It’s a real, it’s a more realistic storyline and sometimes more believable than we have with our heroes that just are again usually portrayed as perfect. Or if they have to make tough decisions, they somehow always make the right one. And that’s just we may have good intent all the time, and we don’t ever make the right decision.

Stefanie Bautista 9:47
Yes.

Ariel Landrum 9:48
In talking about again, villains, we have different definitions of them. So these are the definitions I got from the training that I want you all to sort of think about and consider. Usually a definition of a hero and a villain today can be seen on a spectrum with the hero at one end and the villain on the other, and in between, you may have a few different others. So in this podcast, we’re going to use a blanket term villain, but you can sort of keep these other titles in your head. So a hero is someone who is admired by others for doing something brave or good. That’s kind of like that blanket statement. Then you have anti villains who have characteristics and values that are noble, but how they strive to achieve these goals are questionable, or, you know, even abhorrent. And so I think of Thanos and I think a Killmonger.

Stefanie Bautista 10:36
Right. Yeah.

Chance Calloway 10:38
Good example.

Ariel Landrum 10:39
I consider them more anti villains.

Stefanie Bautista 10:40
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, a lot of that pops up a lot in Marvel stories more so than classic Disney Villains for sure.

Ariel Landrum 10:47
Okay, so an antagonist is an individual who opposes the hero and can often get in the way of the hero achieving their goals. Can you think of any villains or antagonists that might fit this?

Chance Calloway 11:00
Like actual like opposition?

Ariel Landrum 11:02
Mm hmm.

Chance Calloway 11:04
That would be Ursula.

Stefanie Bautista 11:05
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 11:07
Okay, okay. Ursula. All right. All right.

Stefanie Bautista 11:09
I don’t know. For me, I was thinking of Sid from Toy Story. He wasn’t really out to get Buzz and Woody, but he definitely was in the way.

Ariel Landrum 11:20
Hmm, okay.

Stefanie Bautista 11:21
Because he was an obstacle.

Chance Calloway 11:23
Cause I was thinking like, about the parents from Luca.

Stefanie Bautista 11:26
Ah, yeah.

Chance Calloway 11:29
Yeah. Which of course, I would, I would go to the queerest example I find.

Stefanie Bautista 11:35
No, but you know what I, I love that example because they’re a different type of roadblock to Luca.

Ariel Landrum 11:42
Yeah, they oppose his his goals.

Chance Calloway 11:44
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 11:45
Alright, the other two. Next is anti heroes. They are main characters, but they do not have qualities that are considered typically heroic. And they could be morally bad or even simply ordinary.

Chance Calloway 11:57
That’s definitely the homie from what’s what’s the recent one that just came out? Raya and the Last Dragon.

Stefanie Bautista 12:04
Oh, yeah. Um, Namaari.

Ariel Landrum 12:07
Yes yeah right.

Stefanie Bautista 12:07
Namaari with the good hair. She had good Hair.

Ariel Landrum 12:12
Any you can think of Stef? This one stopped me because I come up with anti heroes in my mind.

Stefanie Bautista 12:17
Every time I hear anti hero, I think Deadpool or like, Venom, or you know, somebody who was like, “I am the anti hero.” Like that’s literally in the tag of their name. But when I think of classic Disney movies, or like animated Disney movies, I mean, I don’t know it’s gonna take me a minute.

Ariel Landrum 12:36
So branching out going into Star Wars is Kylo Ren and antagonist or an anti hero?

Stefanie Bautista 12:42
He is a flawed individual.

Chance Calloway 12:44
He is a flawed character.

Stefanie Bautista 12:46
When he didn’t have a shirt on. I was like, “My guy, my guy.”

Chance Calloway 12:52
He’s, he’s he I feel like depending because different people wrote in, I feel like some people wrote him as an anti hero. And some people wrote him as an antagonist.

Ariel Landrum 13:02
Okay.

Chance Calloway 13:03
That’s that’s kind of what I saw. I thought I thought he was very interesting, layered, flawed antagonist, but I can say they felt like some of the screenwriters and directors were really trying to make him an antihero. And I just wasn’t I was a buying it personally.

Stefanie Bautista 13:17
Yeah. And I think it’s right that you mentioned that different people were writing these stories different ways. Because I think that is what’s kind of messed up about the continuity of Star Wars. And that’s a whole nother conversation in itself. But when we are reducing them, I mean, not reducing them, when we’re all breaking down to them to their basic levels of storytelling. It’s hard for us to pinpoint because it has changed hands so many times,

Chance Calloway 13:40
Right?

Ariel Landrum 13:40
Yeah, you’d have to pick like Kylo from this movie versus Kylo from that movie.

Chance Calloway 13:45
Yeah. And I feel like, especially with the anti heroes, what you have, because that’s kind of more of a modern concept, even though the heroes have been, you know, around in literature for eons. But you can really just kind of see, I guess what pop culture attention goes through because the anti heroes really are like the live action adaptations of the villain stories. Like Angelina Jolie as Maleficent that’s an antihero.

Ariel Landrum 14:08
Yes.

Stefanie Bautista 14:09
Yes.

Chance Calloway 14:09
Whereas you know, animated Maleficent is like that now, right? Antagonists evil person.

Stefanie Bautista 14:16
Could anti heroes be like Black Widows family?

Ariel Landrum 14:20
Hmm…

Stefanie Bautista 14:20
Like Red Guardian? Yelena?

Ariel Landrum 14:23
Yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 14:24
And Rachel Weisz?

Ariel Landrum 14:26
Oh, no, she was the Iron Maiden.

Stefanie Bautista 14:28
Yeah, Iron Maiden.

Ariel Landrum 14:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 14:29
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 14:30
I would say so.

Ariel Landrum 14:30
Okay, I could see that as anti heroes because they don’t have heroic qualities. I mean, Yelena I guess gets them in the end or earns them?

Stefanie Bautista 14:39
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 14:39
But for the most part they don’t have a heroic qualities. They do seem to be morally bad.

Stefanie Bautista 14:44
Yeah. I mean, going even further, you can even put Winter Soldier in that context, right?

Ariel Landrum 14:50
Yes, yes. Bucky is Winter Soldier and not the White Wolf.

Stefanie Bautista 14:53
Bucky In Therapy Bucky.

Ariel Landrum 14:57
Prior to therapy, after therapy. Okay, the final one is the classic villain. So the main character but is morally bad or responsible for causing trouble or harm and is often adversarial to the hero.

Chance Calloway 15:11
Mmmm

Stefanie Bautista 15:11
Mmhmm.

Ariel Landrum 15:11
So very different than just like opposing them or having opposing views but intentionally adversarial.

Chance Calloway 15:18
Well that’s more Ursula.

Stefanie Bautista 15:19
For sure. Ursula. Um…

Ariel Landrum 15:23
I mean, pretty much the classic villains from the Princesses.

Chance Calloway 15:28
Yeah, yeah, the classic, the classic way that the villains have been drawn over time. That was that was an Ariel pun, right there.

Ariel Landrum 15:40
Yup I appreciated that.

Stefanie Bautista 15:43
Yeah, Captain Hook.

Ariel Landrum 15:44
Yeah, definitely Captain Hook. I think after like taking this panel, which I again, I highly suggest for our listeners. I loved hearing that spectrum. I think, again, in looking at at narrative and me being a narrative therapist, we tend to want to have our story say something about ourselves. And having a variety of terms to help us identify a villain in our life actually makes it a lot easier. So after taking this panel, I started doing more villain work in my therapy. And some of the things that I noticed was that it was really hard for individuals to find the villain in their life, because all only image they had was a classic villain, and “I don’t want to vilify people, I don’t want people to be like, I don’t want to see them as evil. But I do have obstacles, like an antagonist, or I do have people, like you mentioned, like family, so maybe like anti heroes, or antagonists that go against my wishes or beliefs and make it difficult for me.” And so in writing the narrative in their mind that way, was a lot more healing, because it didn’t feel like we were dishonouring people that we cared about, but we could be honest about the relationship not being a partnership.

Chance Calloway 16:58
That’s a really interesting distinction between, you know, villain and antagonist. Because I think so often, we engineered to think that someone’s being malicious towards us, and it could just be that we have, like, opposing goals that at some point, are gonna, you know, I gotta come come head to head.

Ariel Landrum 17:18
Like the opposite ends of a magnet.

Stefanie Bautista 17:20
Yeah. Yeah.

Chance Calloway 17:21
Right. Yeah, it may not be that you actively don’t want me to succeed. It may just be that you’re trying to succeed at something and I’m trying to succeed at something and they are not. They don’t they’re not. They’re not conducive.

Stefanie Bautista 17:35
Yeah, they don’t fit together, like pieces in a puzzle, like, and not everything does. It’s imperfect. And I feel like real relationships are imperfect, you’re gonna, you know, go through cycles in your life, like, I see kids who are best friends with one kid one year, and like, not friends with that kid the next year. And that’s a normal cycle of life. And that doesn’t mean that you are, you’re flawed, and they are flawed. It’s just, it’s just a part of the circle of life.

Ariel Landrum 18:03
It makes me think of Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton’s relationship until the very end, where it was like they just kept meeting and somehow getting each other’s way. And they kept meeting and getting each other’s way. Where there was no, it didn’t appear malicious intent on either of them to try and get in each other’s way or prevent achievement or goals being made.

Stefanie Bautista 18:29
Mm hmm. And I think before we talked about, and this probably was during the Princess Panel that we were talking about Moana’s antagonist as Ti Feti, like somebody who isn’t even really like an entity that has like intent. It’s just, it’s something that you know, she needs to defeat and now thinking about how that was her antagonist, you could even think of Finding Nemo and as the ocean and the separation, being the antagonist to Marlin and Nemo, not being able to find each other. So I think that spectrum is really important to even think abstractly and not even tie being an antagonists or villain to a certain entity, it could be something much more than that.

Chance Calloway 19:13
Which is something I think a lot of the the Pixar movies, they leave you with that feeling even though some of them you know, like, like Up is one I can think of actually do have antagonists, like actually villains outright villains that show up. A lot of those movies almost kind of like a slice of life, or just like a heightened slice of life.

Stefanie Bautista 19:34
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 19:34
You know, it’s just like, Oh, we’re just doing my thing, and oh, no, like this, you know, look at this dilemma that we’re in now. And it rarely ever felt like you know, Pixar at first didn’t have like the great villains that the Disney cartoons do.

Stefanie Bautista 19:48
Zurg was like a joke of a villain, which was awesome because I love Zurg. He is so cheesy. Like, he’s like the uncle that you’re just like, “You need to stop man.” But fast forward to watching Soul, and the, the journey that, you know, the protagonist goes through in finding himself and finding purpose. That was scary. And that was something to fear. And it wasn’t even anything he could see. It was just the thought of like, never achieving your full potential. And having that being what you know, is his was his his symbol to finding out, you know, what his purpose is in life.

Ariel Landrum 20:26
I think that really shows again, how narrative is starting to be expanded more and our understanding of, you know, child development and learning. Where it doesn’t have to be this straightforward, “This is a bad guy. And this is a good guy,” for them to understand the narrative and what they’re supposed to learn from that. And I think that more abstraction and being able to pull and zoom out, makes it easier for us to apply to ourselves. Like I can easily think of the struggle of not feeling actualized or not knowing what my purpose is in life. And that is relatable. You know, even in my younger years as a little kid, I just don’t consider it that I think of it more as like, “What am I going to do today? Like, what if I don’t do anything interesting today? What is the days wasted?”

Chance Calloway 21:15
Mm hmm.

Stefanie Bautista 21:17
Not being productive is scary. And this world of you need to do everything and be able to be capable of it all. And, you know, I think that’s even something to explore as something that, you know, shouldn’t be feared, but yet it is vilified.

Ariel Landrum 21:31
Yes.

Stefanie Bautista 21:32
And almost extremely so. Especially, you know, in recent times. I mean, it’s okay to not do anything, sometimes. Take care of yourself.

Chance Calloway 21:40
I mean, that’s definitely Tiana’s problem. “I work hard everyday.” No, girl, take a break.

Stefanie Bautista 21:47
I know. Girl take a break.

Chance Calloway 21:49
And your frog now enoy your time in The Bayou. You’re not gonna get this back.

Stefanie Bautista 21:55
You can live off flies. Way less cost, you know, cost effective than beignets.

Chance Calloway 22:04
So gross.

Stefanie Bautista 22:07
I mean, now that we have mentioned so many different villains, would we like to share who our favorite villains are? Because I feel like that’s also when we talked about who our favorite princesses were, that tells us a lot about who we are as individuals. So take a moment.

Chance Calloway 22:27
Who needs a moment. I mean, there’s Maleficent and there’s everyone else, okay.

Stefanie Bautista 22:35
And tell us like, tell us why. Tell us why she is S-Rank in your book.

Chance Calloway 22:40
And I’m talking, you know, animated Maleficent. The reason that she sits at the top is because we don’t know the reasons why she’s evil. She’s like, “Oh, I didn’t get invited to your party. It looks like a lame party anyway, but I’m going to curse this newborn baby, because we didn’t invite you to the party.” And it’s such an elaborate curse, you know? And then she just she goes out of her way to just keep that child’s life terrible.

Stefanie Bautista 23:07
Petty with a capital P.

Chance Calloway 23:10
Yes. So yeah, so for me, it’s like, it’s Maleficent then there is a giant gap. Then there’s Dr. Facilier, and then there’s everybody else.

Ariel Landrum 23:17
Okay, what why Dr. Facilier?

Chance Calloway 23:20
Oh, because he just seems so. I mean, as I think I think it’s the maybe like the religious Black person’s comparison to like, Catholic horror movies? It’s like, seemed like he’s trapped in this voodoo world. He gets the best song. He’s got the best outfit. And then like, just to see that he seems like he’s in over his head. And I just really had so many questions like, “How did you get caught up in this? You know, what are the shadow men doing to you?” Yeah, I just, yeah, I love Dr. Facilier.

Stefanie Bautista 23:51
So it seems that the the villains that make you say, “Why,” are the ones that you like the best? Because they take them to such extreme lengths. And they they are talented in their own right. I mean, like you said, Dr. Facilier had like an amazing song. And Maleficent had an amazing costume and just like her, just her her visuals were just all there down to the scepter and the crow, all of that good stuff. But like yeah, you ask yourself, “How did you get like this?”

Chance Calloway 24:23
Yeah, yeah, it’s like, the less I know about them, the more into it I am. That maybe that’s because I’m a writer. You know, maybe that’s what appeals to me. I’m like, “Oh, oh, I have so many questions.”

Ariel Landrum 24:34
Do you ever fill in the blank for yourself?

Chance Calloway 24:37
I mean, like I came up with that whole backstory for Scar but. The gay uncle and that you know, he because you know he he’s the older brother of Mufasa seems like me and and Mufasa was getting the ladies pregnant and Scar wasn’t so Mufasa by default becomes king. Scar goes and lives in the cave by himself where it is little annoying nephew comes and makes fun of them every day. Like you’d turn into a bad guy too I feel. So yeah I love I’d love to fill in, I love to fill in those blanks. Which is why it’s less fun for me when the movies do unless they do it like Cruella did where with Cruella it just felt like an alternate universe. It didn’t really feel like a prequel the way so many of these other movies do. It just felt like “Oh, this is a different version of 101 Dalmatians. So okay I can get with that.” Because usually, whatever they come up with the fill in the backstory is not satisfying to me. Because it’s very heteronormative. And it’s very, you know, whatever and Easter egg-y and that’s not as fun as just an original authentic story.

Stefanie Bautista 25:36
That makes sense.

Ariel Landrum 25:37
Yeah. How about you Stef?

Stefanie Bautista 25:40
Oh, my favorite villains. And this is only because I adore them in the story. My favorite is Yzma from Emperor’s New Groove. Eartha Kitt In Emperor’s New Groove is amazing. And I think she is just like, “I’mma be, that old lady just cranky as hell with my buff friend, just doing things for me, and like trying to find like a potion to make myself better.” But I think because she was so sassy, so funny, but also just like, out to destroy the city for still God knows what reason. Because she wants to be at the top. She wants to be the Empress. Right?

Ariel Landrum 26:24
Yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 26:25
And just going through crazy lengths in her lab. I don’t know. She was just so outlandish. And I loved it. I love the spidery eyelashes. The old school like, “I still live in the 20s.” Like very, very old Hollywood but like you’re in Peru. It didn’t make sense to me. But I loved it all.

Chance Calloway 26:46
She looked like a flapper who was like 175 years old.

Stefanie Bautista 26:49
Yes, was still still wearing the outfit. Her boobs are down to here. She was fabulous. And she still felt fabulous. But she just she she was in retirement, but she wanted more. And I think that’s why I love her. And also, I love Prince John from Robin Hood. There’s just so many things wrong with Prince John, he is just the forgotten younger brother, which is funny because normally the younger brothers always get more attention. But I guess because King Richard was, you know, being his regal self. Prince John was left to you know, be the place holder. And he just, you know, wanted to suck his thumb and want his mommy. If he just sucked as a leader. He was a crappy replacement. But there he was, and I’m pretty sure he may or may not want to be, you know, royalty and have that responsibility. But but there he was, he was very much like Joffrey to me, but a little bit more likeable because he wasn’t, you know…

Ariel Landrum 27:57
Murdering people up in their bed.

Stefanie Bautista 28:00
He was just making Robin Hood’s life really terrible. Yeah, but those are my favorite ones. I bet I can share the ones that I really didn’t like later on.

Ariel Landrum 28:13
So this one might not be like, evil villain, maybe more of an antagonist, but I really, I always think of The Matchmaker from the animated Mulan.

Stefanie Bautista 28:23
She’s just a supporting character.

Ariel Landrum 28:25
She is… She is the reason the things happen. Because if she had said, “You know, Mulan, you could be matched. “Then she’d have been matched and she wouldn’t have been able to go.

Stefanie Bautista 28:36
Okay, I don’t mean to interject, but I was thinking about Mulan earlier, and I was thinking about how the villain in that story is, is not anyone it’s not the Huns. But I think it’s Toxic Masculinity.

Ariel Landrum 28:49
Oh, totally is.

Stefanie Bautista 28:50
That is the villain. And because the Matchmaker is in this world where that reigned supreme, and there are certain guidelines that the girls need to be a part of in order to get matched. She was just, you know, a player in the game.

Ariel Landrum 29:05
Yes, yeah, she was she was an antagonist. That’s fine. But she I don’t know. She’s just a memorable character to me in regards to like. There aren’t a lot of side characters that randomly interact with your hero for like, a couple of scenes and then never come back again that you don’t. I’ve seen with cosplay of her with the ink mustache.

Stefanie Bautista 29:28
Yes. It’s the best.

Ariel Landrum 29:30
I’ve seen the three little Chinese kids singing the song in Chinese and being one of them being a matchmaker and they’re like, five. Like she’s so memorable to me. And I think I agree with you with toxic masculinity. I also think it’s, for me, she represents a lot of authority figures that I could never essentially satisfy or or meet the needs of or expectations of. I think like I’ve ran into a lot of professors, a lot of supervisors that essentially treated me in a specific way that they thought that I should be treated. “You only act this way you only do this you only say that.| Like, even right now because we’re doing Geek Therapy. I can specifically remember plenty of supervisors who told me I could not play video games with my clients. “Video games were evil and bad. They, they were villains. And that was not real therapy. Lalala.” And that that’s that attitude that I get from The Matchmaker.

Stefanie Bautista 30:28
Gotcha.

Ariel Landrum 30:28
Or it’s like, “Here is tradition. And you never change it.”

Chance Calloway 30:32
I was just thinking that guest on the beat the type of person I’d be like hooking up with Intel gave you one, “Yeah, he’s terrible.”

Ariel Landrum 30:43
“Don’t get with him. He’s bad. I got with him. I knew it was bad, but confirmed it.”

Stefanie Bautista 30:47
“I can tell you from experience.”

Ariel Landrum 30:50
“I’ve lived experience.”

Stefanie Bautista 30:53
I mean, in that that right. I was gonna mention earlier that the one and tag is that I truly truly hate was Hans from Frozen. I hated him. Oh,

Ariel Landrum 31:03
I hate him.

Stefanie Bautista 31:05
I hated him so freakin much because he just embodied every like, bad boyfriend every just like terrible relation just flat out liar and like it with the disguise of “Oh, yeah. You know, like, we’re going to be, you know, ruling this kingdom together, duh duh duh. I have all these things.” But like a con artist. I hate that.

Chance Calloway 31:23
Yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 31:24
And he didn’t even have to like, look like a villain. He was just terrible at the core.

Chance Calloway 31:29
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 31:29
Yeah, he definitely represents like a Disney version of domestic violence. He wanted power and control. He got power and control. He used deceit and manipulation and emotional manipulation in order to get it. And the only person of everybody who’s aware that he is evil and deceitful is the person that he’s abusing.

Stefanie Bautista 31:48
Like, there was no like, I didn’t want to know about his backstory. I did not care where he came from. I did not want to know like, what his hopes dreams and aspirations was. And if he was a good person, and you know, his former life did not care. I was like, “You are 100% basura. You need to leave.

Ariel Landrum 32:04
Yes. Yes. Garbage person.

Chance Calloway 32:07
I kind of have similar feelings about stepmother from the animated Cinderella. And I think just because her evil is so grounded in reality that it took a fairy godmother just to give Cinderella a chance. Yeah, you know, and just all the terrible things that happen in that movie or like things that could happen in like any home. When they’re ripping up or dress, just like, “I’ve seen people be that evil to other people.” You know. So yeah. The stepmother is even like a fun villain, man. Like I can’t wait for Cinderella to get out of that house,

Ariel Landrum 32:38
And you’re talking about animated. But I do you feel that way for all the versions of the evil stepmother?

Chance Calloway 32:44
I mean, it’s just something like Bernadette Peters is fun. But I would say aside from Bernadette Peters, yeah, Angelica Houston in Ever After and Cate in the Kenneth Branagh version is very, very similar. But there’s just been so many different adaptations of Cinderella, you know that I kind of have to limit myself to which ones cuz I don’t even remember which ones are those Disney?

Stefanie Bautista 33:06
But yeah, Lady Tremaine is the one that you’re thinking of with the poof.

Ariel Landrum 33:10
Yeah the poof.

Stefanie Bautista 33:12
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 33:12
And a cat named Lucifer.

Stefanie Bautista 33:13
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 33:13
Evil ass cat.

Stefanie Bautista 33:17
The most evil and I think like, it was so hard for me to, to watch that scene when they’re ripping up the dress. And like having her just see her two step sisters elevated. So above her, it was so hard for me to watch. I mean, even for me, I’m the eldest. But you know, I know having older cousins and you know, older family members who, you know, got treated a little bit better. I could, I couldn’t even bear to like, think of how bad it could be. Because like you said, it’s so relatable. It could happen in any family. In any blended family. Definitely.

Ariel Landrum 33:50
And not even blended families. Parents do unfortunately, antagonized siblings to harm each other. If parents have had favorites, that’s a human thing. But when they intentionally make it so that your siblings abusing you, and now you’re manipulating both children, because this, this child doesn’t even know that they’re that they are being told to harm their sibling. They just think that this is the natural order. “I’m the one who must be the hero in the family. And this person is a black sheep. They’re the villain.”

Stefanie Bautista 34:21
Yeah. Definitely. Ooh. That made me feel some things Lady Tremaine.

Chance Calloway 34:28
It’s, it’s similar to Hans right. I really don’t remember the Frozen is in this black hole of my brain, but because it’s just another type of domestic violence, you know? And there’s something I think, Jafar is a fantasy, an escape. Lady Tremaine, lLike that’s so recognizable. It’s like, “Oh, my God.” You know, it’s not as it’s not as it’s not enjoyable. You bet. It’s just bad. Like, “h, you’re horrible human being.”

Stefanie Bautista 34:59
Yeah. when she’s at Disneyland I don’t take a picture of her.

Ariel Landrum 35:02
No.

Stefanie Bautista 35:03
I want to be around.

Chance Calloway 35:05
She’s out and about at Disneyland?

Ariel Landrum 35:07
She is at Disney World. She’s on the parade with the two step sisters. Anastasia and..

Stefanie Bautista 35:13
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 35:13
No…

Chance Calloway 35:14
Anastasia and…

Stefanie Bautista 35:16
And…

Chance Calloway 35:16
The other one.

Stefanie Bautista 35:18
Yeah. Green and pink? Right?

Chance Calloway 35:22
It’s not Gertrude. What is it?

Ariel Landrum 35:24
Drizella. Drizella! Anastasia and Drizella. But those aren’t their names, I think in The Brandy…

Chance Calloway 35:31
No. It’s Minerva and Calliope that I know.

Stefanie Bautista 35:34
Yes.

Ariel Landrum 35:34
Yeah, yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 35:37
Yeah. All the characters are lovable in that one. I really like that one.

Chance Calloway 35:41
Yeah. Yeah. Even if they weren’t supposed to be they were all just so loveable.

Stefanie Bautista 35:44
Yeah. Yeah, um, how about Disney villain songs? I know you we mentioned Dr. Facilier’s songs because I think Disney villain songs have been iconic and now you know, we love to sing them. Be Prepared was a bop through and through. I remember watching and I was just like, “Oh, this is kind of cool. Like this is this is a way cool song.” And it was so fitting for like the 90s it was just that kind of like driving sort of beat. But yeah, can you guys think of any villain songs that you guys like?

Chance Calloway 36:21
I mean, be Be Prepared definitely had the best choreography. Yeah, there’s a whole set piece. I mean, of course you got to say Poor Unfortunate Souls.

Stefanie Bautista 36:32
Yep.

Chance Calloway 36:34
Hmhmm. I think I’m wrong about this. Correct me if I am, but is Ursula the first villain to get a song?

Stefanie Bautista 36:40
Oh good question.

Ariel Landrum 36:41
In for Disney princesses? Uhh I don’t know.

Chance Calloway 36:44
Yeah, cuz I mean, I know like, I know like in pizza dragon like, you know this singing in, |I got a bill of sale right here.” But like, I feel like when it comes to like, the bread and butter of Disney. I think Ursula was the first one after. Because it was Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and then Aladdin.

Stefanie Bautista 37:05
Cruella De Ville was about her. She didn’t sing it. Yeah.

Chance Calloway 37:10
She wasn’t singing it. Yeah, but that’s that’s a fire song though. Oh, and then and then the cats in Lady in the Tramp. The cats had a song.

Stefanie Bautista 37:17
Oh, the sia, the Siamese Twins? That one? That’s such a short song. I feel like it’s only like one verse, right.

Chance Calloway 37:23
Such a short song and still so offense.

Stefanie Bautista 37:27
Yes, offensive. Like I didn’t even want to say it out loud.

Chance Calloway 37:32
I was like, “The cats. The cat’s had a song.”

Stefanie Bautista 37:34
The cats the cat song.

Chance Calloway 37:37
Really Poor Unfortunate Souls. I think for me up until Be Prepared, that was like that was the song. Oh, and then the Frollo song from The Hunchback. That’s intense. The hellfire song?

Ariel Landrum 37:50
Yeah, what he’s doing he’s singing out his temptations into fireplace?

Stefanie Bautista 37:55
Yes. Literal hell.

Chance Calloway 37:57
Thats a broadway number like that would when somebody a Tony award it was super weird seeing that animated film when I was a kid. I was like this is this has got levels that I can’t understand.

Stefanie Bautista 38:05
I mean Gaston’s song. Very self indulgent. Super arrogant.

Chance Calloway 38:12
Two parts. He gets a reprise.

Stefanie Bautista 38:14
He gets a reprise is true.

Ariel Landrum 38:15
I don’t know if this I wouldn’t say this is a fun song to sing. But it’s one that I use in therapy a lot to identify the 11 ways of gaslighting and it’s Mother Knows Best.

Stefanie Bautista 38:25
Oh from Tangled.

Ariel Landrum 38:27
Mm hmm. And then I will say the song that I hate is the Shiney song.

Chance Calloway 38:35
Oh from Moana?

Stefanie Bautista 38:36
Tamatoa?

Ariel Landrum 38:38
I friggin hate that song. I hate the crab. I don’t I don’t like that song for some reason it irks me I don’t I don’t like it if the beats wrong the the lyrics I and I have I have friends who will sing it to me on my voicemail because they know that that’s a song that I hate.

Stefanie Bautista 38:54
But Poor Unfortunate Souls and Be Prepared…

Chance Calloway 38:58
And I will throw in Friends on the Other Side just because that was such a that was such a it was basically Be Prepared Part two. But I’ll allow it.

Ariel Landrum 39:09
“I’ll allow it.”

Stefanie Bautista 39:10
Oh, here you go. I found it. The first Disney’s tune to ever be led by a bad guy was Hi Diddle Dee Dee sung by Honest John and Pinocchio. In the nearly 18 years since then, tons of animations greatest antagonists have been telling their own stories through song. Yes. So Pinocchio, which I have not seen in…

Ariel Landrum 39:27
Forever?

Chance Calloway 39:28
I remember the scene as soon as you say I’m like, Oh, yeah. But it also happens before Yeah, no, no, I won’t even I won’t even add any. Any aspects to that? That’s yeah, that’s the first one. Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 39:39
It wasn’t a princess movie. But if we’re talking about villain songs…

Chance Calloway 39:42
Yeah. Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 39:43
Well, so then I’m, I’m really curious. have your feelings towards the villains changed when you saw their live action? Or have they solidified your feelings for them? Or do you find them as separate? Like they’re not? They’re not canon.

Stefanie Bautista 39:58
It depends.

Chance Calloway 40:00
Cosign. I cosign on that.

Stefanie Bautista 40:02
Yeah. It depends on the storytelling. And if I even like the movie, if I took to it.

Ariel Landrum 40:08
Okay

Stefanie Bautista 40:09
I know Maleficent. At first I didn’t not really like the live action. Or maybe it’s because I didn’t really see it in the theater, I saw it outside of the theater. So I probably didn’t have my full attention to it. But I think it was because this was in the time of, oh, they’re going to start doing all these live action adaptations. And, you know, I was like, in my head, nothing good compared to the original classics, you know, they’re, you know, like this and like that. So maybe if I give it another go, it might be different, but also after seeing Cruella and how much I like that one. And like Chance, that alternate universe kind of perspective. I enjoyed that, because it built a world that I could really buy into. So it depends.

Chance Calloway 40:53
Yeah, I’d say for me, it depends as well, for completely different reasons. I like Maleficent more than I thought I would. I thought the motivation that they gave Maleficent I thought was interesting. I thought it was well done. It was a unique story. It tied in, but I also felt like Maleficent of all the villains is the one that succeeds the best because she’s just evil. So she didn’t need a backstory.

Ariel Landrum 41:14
Okay.

Chance Calloway 41:15
And then, as much as I liked Cruella movie, I didn’t like this idea that like being bad, or having a mental illness was like hereditary.

Ariel Landrum 41:27
Mm hmm.

Chance Calloway 41:28
You know? So I was kind of like, Oh, and this is a cool little beat Nick hips, 60s. Oh, I like the mod vibe. But then I was like, that’s the that’s what they’re giving. That’s what they’re giving the puppy killer. Okay.

Ariel Landrum 41:41
Hm hmm. Hm hmm.

Stefanie Bautista 41:43
Exactly. And I still don’t see her as a villain after that. I enjoyed the story. I liked what they did with her character. But if you ask me do I still think she’s a villain? IDK? Big Question mark on that one until we get the next one. Maybe?

Chance Calloway 41:57
Yeah, great. Glenn Close as Cruella is a villian. Emma Stone as Cruella is not.

Stefanie Bautista 42:02
Yes.

Ariel Landrum 42:03
Yeah, this is that’s that’s definitely her journey story. We don’t even know. Yeah, I think, for me, I was interested in the villain they added in Mulan of The Witch. I thought that gave a level of depth but got lost, given how long the movie was and just some of the other things in the narrative. And I feel like I would have enjoyed that addition more if it felt like she was more present. But again, I can I can feel that connection from that character as as as a woman and feeling that direct oppression from men. And I think for me, the live actions of Maleficent specifically, like I, the there are scenes in the first movie that I use with my trauma survivor clients, specifically my surviving clients of sexual abuse, the where we have so much compassion for this character, where as I always saw Maleficent, as like, a really cool look. And now it’s like, like, even though I don’t find her as a villain in either of those live action narratives, I have more compassion and care towards the choices she made and who she is, then I would have given her her evilness and just being an evil person in the animated series.

Stefanie Bautista 43:16
And I think that goes back to when we recorded Shang-Chi and talked about when Wenwu as a villain, but also having his reasons of why he was so blinded by needing to get through that wall. And it I empathized with him at the end. I mean, as a parent and as somebody who, you know, like is always been taught to achieve at the highest level, no matter what circumstances, and but also giving yourself a family, somebody you know, that you care about and love having that taken away from you. You You know that that’s a sorrow that is, you know, immeasurable. So his motivations for you know, just being blinded and wanting to get through that wall. You can really understand why he was just like, going at it and just like not seeing anything but needing to get through that wall. So it’s definitely evolved over over stories and over different franchises. Definitely.

Ariel Landrum 44:21
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think going back to that spectrum, right. I mean, like, even if we’re looking at these different stories and narratives, we have so many different forms of antagonists and villains, even in these stories, because we’re talking about, you know, in Shang-Chi, we’re talking about his dad, but we’re talking about this evil force that’s behind the wall. But then we’re also talking about navigating the modern world and family dynamics. Like we have all these layers of things that essentially are opposition for the hero. And so it makes me have even more appreciation for villains having that diagram in my head to be able to see that narrative in a certain way. To be able to expand it more than just the one face that’s presented to you, because that’s the main face.

Stefanie Bautista 45:08
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 45:09
You know, that makes me think of something interesting that I’m what I want to say before I lose it, which is I’m losing it right now. Is that oh, here we go. A lot of times the protagonist has to deal with, I would say emotions and sensitivities that you know, that that the that I would say, our society frowns down upon, you know, like being sad about things being being heartbroken about things. Whereas villains are allowed, just even if the motivation is something kind of like tragic. Their main energies like this badass, like mo everything down kind of energy. And so I think there’s a variation of the viewer speaking for myself, of course, which is like, “I wish I could act like that. I wish that whenever I had something, getting in my way, or making me angry, I could just mow it down.” You know, like, like, Maleficent did, like Gaston did, as opposed to having to feel my feelings and sit in it like a lot of protaganists. I think that’s depending on the film, depending on where you’re at in life, what emotion you’re trying to avoid. I think that’s another reason that villians can kind of resonate.

Ariel Landrum 46:11
Yeah, we insane. Like they have drive and they get their needs met without apology.

Chance Calloway 46:16
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 46:16
Right. If you think of you definitely think of protagonists. They, they have to care. Like, “I can’t let other people get harmed. I’m burdened by many things. That mean that I have to think of others, not myself. And I have sometimes to go against my own goals, because I have to think of the wishes of of everybody else.”

Chance Calloway 46:41
Yeah. So thinking about about like, which one is it? Is it Civil War? You know, when like Cap is just like, “I’m just trying to keep my friend alive.” And then..

Stefanie Bautista 46:49
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 46:49
You know? And then like, Tony, basically is the villain of that movie.

Stefanie Bautista 46:53
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 46:54
And then they really waited until like, the 11th hour to give him like, I think justifiable motivation for most of the viewers. It’s like “Oh, yeah, yeah, no that makes sense.” But everything up to that point, he didn’t have that motivation.

Ariel Landrum 47:05
No.

Stefanie Bautista 47:06
It was like Captain America show. That’s why.

Chance Calloway 47:08
Yeah.

Ariel Landrum 47:08
It was. It’s Captain America featuring Iron Man.

Stefanie Bautista 47:15
And I think that’s an interesting thing that comic books do. I mean, they they pit Iron Man and Captain America against each other. They’ve pitted Batman and Superman against each other. Like, these are things that challenge who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. And you know, in these alternate universes, and these variants of comic books and their stories, they’re able to explore those things. And you know, you can even have alternate versions, like Bizarro and Superman. And, you know, like having, having those different lenses, I think, is a really great way to kind of challenge what we know storytelling, and you know, how we can basically describe things that we can relate to in everyday life. Because, you know, like I mentioned earlier, not everything is so cut and dry. It’s not always black and white, it’s not good versus evil. It is all dependent on your roles and your journeys in life and the intersection of those things depending on who you’re around.

Ariel Landrum 48:12
Yeah, I think that that fluidity, definitely lets us have a better lens when we’re putting those templates on our own lives, and seeing the things that our own barriers, as well as the things that you know, essentially champion us or make us feel more empowered,

Stefanie Bautista 48:28
I guess my hope for Disney Villains, now that we are in the world of Disney, Star Wars, Pixar, Pixar, Marvel, all of those things is that I want more, I want better Star Wars villains. I want a re-do on some of them. Um, those are my hopes at least. And it’ll be interesting to see where Pixar takes their stories as we are getting more slice of life narratives and different ways of, of telling human stories and non human stories. So what are your guys’s hopes for you know, storytelling in the Disney World moving forward?

Ariel Landrum 49:10
I’m really enjoying redemption arcs and and sort of complete 180s. And I specifically think of like Loki, because homeboy when he first came out was like evil evil. He was stabbing people giggling about it. He had pure joy in the fact that he was being more than mischievous and chaos he was he was being harming and as the stories kept getting told I saw his relationship with his brother. And now with even just the new series, titled Loki I get to actually see him be a hero and yet still have those same struggles. So he hasn’t changed so much. But because he’s still recognizable, but he’s changed enough that I don’t find him as like that pure villain anymore. And there’s been some redemption and I think that those are the the villains stories that I want to see more of just more redemption arcs because I’m seeing it with Marvel. I’m not seeing it too much with Disney unless you’re talking about live action and I don’t even know if it’s redemption as it is just new interpretation.

Stefanie Bautista 50:17
Yeah. How about you Chance?

Chance Calloway 50:19
I mean, I say let them be gay. So many of them are queer coded might as well give a couple of them like you know, partners. That’s gonna be the first drum I bang in every you know, freakin solo you give me but, um.

Ariel Landrum 50:34
And but Chance I would I would ask you to define queer coding because I don’t know if some of our audience members even know what that is.

Chance Calloway 50:41
Oh, sure. I mean, I’m not going to find it as well as good Stef could, but basically like the character has enough attributes that are I guess stereotypically given to queer individuals. Like they usually are our single a lot of a lot of the Disney villains wear purple. The men are very very well groomed and put together and usually a tad bit flamboyant or I should say the male characters. Like if you think about Scar when he goes “Sensation,” you know just that moment you can already see the hair flip, he look like Ariel. Even you know Ursula was like you know, was based on a drag queen. So yeah, so there’s a lot of queer coding that happens and with the with the Disney Villains. I think of how many of them were purple and that is hilarious. So yes, I say just go out make one of them gay for real. Cause we actually had this con… I still haven’t seen The Last Dragon but I I was talking about how it sounded to me like that character was probably because like, what’s the character’s name?

Stefanie Bautista 51:41
Namaari.

Chance Calloway 51:42
Namaari seemed queer coded to me. And I was like, seemed like that probably was like the villain. And we looked it up and it’s like, in their early drafts, that was the villian.

Stefanie Bautista 51:50
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 51:50
That’s Disney. They’re gonna they’re gonna make their their bad characters queer.

Stefanie Bautista 51:54
Yeah. And if you look at, you know, the storytelling, she’s the foil to Raya. And she is, you know, her counterpart, but on the other side, so it would be right to, to make that conclusion.

Chance Calloway 52:08
Make him queer. Um, but I would say tying in more to what, to what your actual question was, and something I think that they can actually do or would be willing to do is similar to Star Wars. I’m excited to see some X-Men villains that are not Magneto. I’m really looking forward to… I mean, I’m the MCU is feeling a little claustrophobic because once you get so big, then everything has to you know, so that part I’m not really… I don’t know how they’re gonna tie it all in. But there’s so many great villains in the X-Men world that got overshadowed because of the greatness of Ian McKellen and then the hotness of Michael Fassbender.

Stefanie Bautista 52:42
Yes. Oh, yeah.

Chance Calloway 52:44
I’m really looking forward to more X-men villains. Similar to actually Spider-Man they’re already doing that. A lot of the great Spider-Man villains, they’re finally being able to bring on screen because they’re making more and more and more of those one.

Ariel Landrum 52:54
Yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 52:55
Yeah, I was gonna say Loki was too good looking for us to just leave him at that.

Ariel Landrum 53:01
Yeah it’s truth.

Stefanie Bautista 53:03
We could not leave Tom Hiddleston

Ariel Landrum 53:05
Once we get to live action I’m not I’m not seeing many ugly villains.

Stefanie Bautista 53:11
You’re very right.

Chance Calloway 53:12
That’s interesting. That’s true. They do. They do pretty them up.

Stefanie Bautista 53:15
Yeah, I mean, Ultron in ways they made him look like buff. And…

Ariel Landrum 53:19
Yes.

Stefanie Bautista 53:19
It was just like, “Huh, you’re not even. What? What’s happening here? Why do I? No. Stop it.”

Chance Calloway 53:27
Because actually, because I forget how cuz. I mean, that’s started with Glenn Close. Like I forget how like bony Cruella was like in the cartoons.

Ariel Landrum 53:34
Yeah.

Stefanie Bautista 53:35
She’s like, Yzma.

Ariel Landrum 53:36
Yeah.

Chance Calloway 53:37
Glenn Close is so they made it so glamorous with all those outfits.

Ariel Landrum 53:41
Yes regal.

Chance Calloway 53:41
Yeah. And so then I go back and look at the other cartoon she’s wearing like, that ratty fur coat and I’m just like…

Stefanie Bautista 53:48
Chain smoking every like 30 seconds.

Chance Calloway 53:51
Like in the cartoons, there’s so much less attractive. Even Angelina Jolie is hotter than like cartoon Maleficent.

Stefanie Bautista 53:57
For sure.

Ariel Landrum 53:58
Absolutely.

Stefanie Bautista 53:58
Yeah. Yeah. All right, guys. This was awesome. And I I enjoyed this so much. I wish we can go on. But I think our time is done for today.

Ariel Landrum 54:08
It is.

Stefanie Bautista 54:09
But Chance we want to have you back. You’re amazing.

Chance Calloway 54:12
Oh, for sure.

Stefanie Bautista 54:13
Yeah. So if you have any thoughts or want to shoot us your favorite Disney villain, your favorite Disney villain song? Let us know on our Instagram @HappiestPodGT and on our Twitter @HappiestPodGT. Again, thank you Chance for being with us.

Chance Calloway 54:31
Thank you for having me.

Ariel Landrum 54:32
Where can people find you?

Chance Calloway 54:34
Oh, yeah, um, probably the easiest places to find me would be on Twitter @ChanceCalloway and Instagram @ChanceSCalloway.

Stefanie Bautista 54:43
Awesome. And we’re looking forward to your new works. I know you have a lot going on. Yes.

Chance Calloway 54:49
Oh, yeah, I got. I got a lot of it coming your way.

Stefanie Bautista 54:51
Awesome.

Ariel Landrum 54:53
All right. Well, thank you everybody for listening in. Have a Happy Halloween! Bye!

Chance Calloway 55:00
Happy Halloween.

Stefanie Bautista 55:00
Bye everyone!

Media/Characters Mentioned
  • Hocus Pocus
  • Scar
  • Mufasa
  • Yzma
  • Lady Tremaine
  • Evil Step Mother
  • Maleficent
  • Once Upon A Time
  • Regina Mills
  • Thanos
  • Killmonger
  • Luca
  • Raya and the Last Dragon
  • Red Garudian
  • Yelena Belova
  • Iron Madien
  • Emperor Zurg
  • Prince John
  • The Matchmaker
  • Frozen
  • Prince Hans
  • Cinderella
  • Gaston
  • Tiana
  • Moana
  • Marlin
  • Nemo
  • Finding Nemo
  • Tamatoa
  • Dr. Facilier
  • The Hunchback of Notre Dame
  • Monseigneur Claude Frollo
  • Sid
  • Ursula
  • Namaari
  • Loki
  • Cruella
  • Cruella de Vil
Topics/Themes Mentioned
  • Villians
  • Spectrum
  • Heroes
  • Flawed
  • Resources
  • Disenfranchised Communities
  • Marginalized Communities
  • Queer Coding
  • Domestic violence
  • Emotional manipulation

Questions? Comments? Discuss this episode on the GT Forum.

 Website: happy.geektherapy.com
 | Instagram: @HappiestPodGT | Twitter: @HappiestPodGT | Facebook: @HappiestPodGT |
 | Stef on Twitter: @stefa_kneee | Ariel on Instagram: @airyell3000 |
 | Chance on Twitter: @ChanceCalloway | Chance on Instagram: @chancecalloway |

Geek Therapy is a 501(c)(3) non-profit with the mission of advocating for the effective and meaningful use of popular media in therapeutic, educational, and community practice.
| GT Facebook: @GeekTherapy | GT Twitter: @GeekTherapy |
| GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.com  | GT Discord: geektherapy.com/discord |

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