Everything Bagel

Marc Cuiriz 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Marc Cuiriz and I am joined by Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:24
Hey,

Marc Cuiriz 0:26
Link, Keller.

Link Keller 0:27
Hello.

Marc Cuiriz 0:29
And Josué Cardona.

Josué Cardona 0:31
Hey, Mark. Hey, everybody.

Marc Cuiriz 0:33
Hello. Hello, guys. So, link, we missed you last week.

Link Keller 0:37
I missed you all, too.

Marc Cuiriz 0:39
But I believe since you missed last week, this is your turn this week. So what do you got for us?

Link Keller 0:45
Well, while I was on vacation, I convinced a couple of friends to watch a movie that I have been dying to see a little film called everything everywhere all at once. And we laughed, we cried. I have been thinking about it constantly. And I rewatched it again last night in preparation for our recording. And by God, it’s such a good movie!!

Josué Cardona 1:19
It’s one of those movies that on the second. It’s it’s like you have to I feel like you have to watch it again. A second time.

Link Keller 1:26
I think that’s right. I think you do. I think you do have to watch it again.

Lara Taylor 1:31
I’ve only watched it one time. And I mostly get what was going on, but like so like I understand it more than inception.

Link Keller 1:41
more accessible than inception. That’s the tagline

Lara Taylor 1:43
Yeah. But there’s a whole lot of in the beginning, I was like, What the fuck is going on? So

Josué Cardona 1:49
I think it’s a lot of just like, there’s a lot there that you’re not supposed to. It’s impossible to know what it means. Right? It’s all hidden. So then when you watch it the second time you’re like, Oh, it was all there. Like there was all this stuff going on. But also every time I have a discussion about the movie with someone I feel like this movie’s got layers is in my opinion.

Lara Taylor 2:08
It’s an onion, an onion.

Josué Cardona 2:10
It’s an onion, yeah. Yeah. Why do you want to talk about?

Link Keller 2:15
Well, first I want to start with we are going to be talking spoilers. But for our listeners, unless you are like very adamant of avoiding spoilers. Please listen to this episode, because talking about it is not at all the same experience as watching it. And even if you know every plot beat, the experience of watching this film is amazing. I would consider this in the top tier of all films of all time. How much I think that this is fantastic and amazing. visual auditory experience. So if any of you want to opt out, that’s fine. I understand. But like

Lara Taylor 2:58
many of you watching this, many people in the discord would cosign that that is the best. That’s like the best cinematic experience. I saw that right when it came out too.

Josué Cardona 3:10
Also if if someone if you haven’t seen it, stick around because you won’t believe what I’m talking about what actually happened in the movie anyway. Try guessing if it’s true or not.

Lara Taylor 3:22
Maybe we’ll throw some little lies in there. Just maybe,

Lara Taylor 3:25
maybe, maybe.

Link Keller 3:26
you’ll know when you see it.

Josué Cardona 3:27
Maybe

Link Keller 3:28
and see it again. Yeah. Yeah, no, I want to talk about this movie because obviously I loved it. It is fantastic. Movie. It is a heartwarming family story. It is fun sci fi multiverse stuff in you know, recently we have had several multiverse movies. And I think this one

Josué Cardona 3:55
everything is a multiverse movie

Link Keller 3:57
that Well, I think that this movie is the top tier of multiverse movies. Which is hard to say because I did deeply love Spider Man into the spider verse. But this was so good!! Yeah, I think it’s got really deep, delicious themes to talk about. It’s philosophical. It is humorous. It is heartwarming, it is emotionally destroying. It’s great. I I just I can’t wait to talk about this with you guys.

Lara Taylor 4:38
There are a lot of what the fuck moments

Link Keller 4:41
Yes, there are.

Josué Cardona 4:43
It’s it’s it’s one of my favorite live action animes I’ve ever watched.

Link Keller 4:47
that is a great way to describe it.

Josué Cardona 4:50
And it’s yeah, I also think that this movie works really well as we never use this term. Like, like a Rorschach movie. But I really do think that depending on your current state of mind, it will hit you in different ways. I think because it touches on so many things, and in ways that it’s like the first time I saw it, things were very clear. And the second time I saw it, things were very clear in a different way. And I don’t think either one was wrong. So I can’t I can’t wait. show me show me those notes, Link. what you got?

Link Keller 5:30
Yes, I did take notes. And I do also want to point out that this is in this notebook. At least this is the first time that I’ve, I’ve done both pages. Usually I keep it to one page for my notes, but I was just too excited. Also, I drew the everything bagel a couple of times. Yeah, if you got daddy issues, there’s something to relate to. If you got mommy issues, there’s something to relate to. If you have ever been depressed, and nihilistic, there is something to relate to.

Lara Taylor 6:02
If you’re a parent, there’s something to relate to.

Link Keller 6:06
Absolutely.

Lara Taylor 6:07
If you like hot dogs,

Josué Cardona 6:08
if you have parents there’s something to relate to,

Link Keller 6:11
if you’ve ever enjoyed anything that Jamie Lee Curtis is in, you have something to look forward to. God, she’s a treasure. Oh my gosh. Ah, okay. So, basic outline, our main character played by Michelle Yeoh. Evelyn is

Josué Cardona 6:30
fun fact, if you have the subtitles on, it refers to her as bagel Evelyn,

Link Keller 6:36
Bagel Evelyn. aww. She is a wife and mother and her family owns a laundromat and they are in the process of doing their taxes. That’s it. That’s the whole movie.

Josué Cardona 7:00
That’s how Part One starts

Lara Taylor 7:02
then Nope. That’s the whole movie.

Marc Cuiriz 7:04
Yeah, that really is it?

Lara Taylor 7:08
It starts and ends with it. Yes.

Josué Cardona 7:11
Spoilers.

Link Keller 7:12
Spoilers. Yes,

Josué Cardona 7:14
it’s taxes.

Link Keller 7:16
Evelyn is strained, she is exhausted with her life and the struggles that she has to deal with a distant and unapproving father, her husband who she feels is very silly and not very competent. And her daughter who representation lesbian is, you know, not doing a ton and Evelyn finds issue with all of these things. She’s very displeased with the state of her life, and how she got into this position. While on the way to go do her taxes, something mysterious happens where Waymond her husband’s changes and tells her that something big is happening, and that she has a choice to turn left and go to her tax meeting, or to turn right and go into the janitor’s closet. And she’s like, What are you talking about? Dude? That’s so weird. This opens up a whole Multiverse she gets these earpieces that allow her to jump into parallel dimensions. Some of them yes to access them, some of which are like that choice that binary choice of turning left or turning right some of which are very very distance including having hot dog hands.

Josué Cardona 9:07
hotdog Fingers

Link Keller 9:08
hotdog fingers

Lara Taylor 9:10
hotdog fingers Anytime that came up I just I could not I could not so

Link Keller 9:15
great prosthetics

Josué Cardona 9:16
cuz you’d love because you because you love them so much. You can like

Lara Taylor 9:20
no

Link Keller 9:20
because they are disturbing

Lara Taylor 9:24
very disturbing. I was like they went hard on the hot dog hands one.

Link Keller 9:31
they commited to the bit.

Marc Cuiriz 9:33
They really did.

Lara Taylor 9:35
they did.

Link Keller 9:37
But yeah, we get to see Evelyn sort of start to figure out this. Verse jumping is what they call it. And she finds out that there is a villain Jobu Tupaki who is moving through the verses and destroying things and alpha Waymond, the cooler version of her husband who introduces all this to her.

Josué Cardona 10:02
that’s subjective which one’s cooler

Link Keller 10:04
I agree, I strongly agree. But he basically is like, Hey, I think that you are the only one who can defeat her. I think that there is something about you that is extra special, it is going to be the way to defeat Jobu. And then it’s a it’s an adventure story. And we get to go on an adventure. And it turns out, Jobu is actually her daughter Joy. Who has become so good at verse jumping, that she is everything everywhere, all at once she is able to jump between all of the universes. And she has the coolest outfits. It’s it’s just great. That’s the basic rundown there.

Josué Cardona 11:06
I I want to edit some of that.

Link Keller 11:09
Okay.

Josué Cardona 11:10
Because because I don’t think that, so, she showed potential. Alpha joy from the Alpha universe showed potential. And then she got pushed too hard and basically fragmented into into all of them, right. So it’s not like, she got so good. It’s almost like out of her control. In a way she just is now. All versions of that all at once. And it’s You made it sound like Oh, she’s so good at it. But it’s like, no, like this is this is a despairing thing, right? Like she she, she it’s like a like when we talk about superpowers, that being a curse. And yes, she’s super powerful. But at the same time,

Link Keller 11:52
it was something that was put upon her, but she

Lara Taylor 11:56
she probably worked at it and got better

Link Keller 11:59
when they introduce her character is very much in a position of power. Especially over other people.

Josué Cardona 12:08
Yeah,

Link Keller 12:09
specifically in this way that she can she can control jumping between different Joy’s across the multiverse without the equipment that the other people need to do so. But yeah, I don’t. I agree. That is not is she didn’t opt into it originally.

Josué Cardona 12:31
Yeah. Yeah. She was she was pushed and which is like, I mean, I think, see, like, I don’t I don’t think I don’t think you’re wrong, either. Right. It’s like, it depends on how you look at it. Like, Oh, is she she just really good at that? Or is she stuck? And I think I think ultimately, I think she’s she’s stuck though. Even though Yeah, she she has this ability. And she’s using it. She could be using it for good. But she’s not because because it’s hard and it kind of sucks.

Link Keller 13:04
Well, and because she is in a state in which the idea of good no longer applies, because it’s everything. Right is like the idea of like, I could use this power for good. It’s like, Yeah, I do. And also I use it for bad. And also I use it for neutral

Josué Cardona 13:25
none of it matters,

Link Keller 13:27
none of it matters because it’s all happening constantly. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 13:34
Which has a lot to do walk around with that knowledge and that experience. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to jump in like 30 times during your just how much you’ve recap so far, because there’s so much like, ooh I want to talk about that. ooh I want to talk about that.

Link Keller 13:54
so let’s let’s get into it!

Marc Cuiriz 13:55
Yeah, I’m, I’m very much like, like this, this movie was got me really thinking and I was like, Man, this is such a great like, philosophical movie. And this just was like, I was like, oh, baby, like I’m so ready for this. I could go on so many, like, just I’ve wanted to talk about this movie. And for whatever reason, I’ve been able to like keep it to myself all day today. Like at work. I wanted to just run up to people have you seen this movie, we got to talk about this movie. And I was like, nope, nope, we gotta save it gotta wait because there’s just there’s so much here. And

Josué Cardona 14:29
so talk about the movie.

Marc Cuiriz 14:29
Oh, my goodness. Okay, so I kind of agree with the like with kind of what you were saying about like how she’s like both really good at it. But at the same time, she’s stuck. But you were saying how she’s more stuck. I’m leaning more towards the answer of Yes. Like I like I think I think it’s a matter of like yes, she’s stuck in Yes. She’s also just really good at the power. And

Lara Taylor 14:53
she’s everything everywhere all the time. She is stuck and she’s just really good at the power.

Link Keller 14:58
Yeah, exactly. they really took the improv “Yes, And” it was like, that’s the heart, we’re doing that

Marc Cuiriz 15:04
basically. And so for me like seeing how, like, seeing, like the nihilistic viewpoint of like, viewing the world and viewing the universe in this sort of way of like, here’s now this human that is essentially like, an, like, I wouldn’t say omnipotent, but like in some form of like they can, they experience everything. They they have a shared amount of focus in pretty much every single possible universe that they’re involved in, with obviously, like, determined depending on what universe they want to jump to. That’s the one where, like, there, that’s where a good chunk of their focus is, but like the rest of their attention is equally divided amongst all the other universes. And for someone to be experiencing all of those decisions that all those different joys are making all the exact same time, you can tell like, in a way, you can see why she developed the viewpoint of like, actions are merely actions, they have no meaning and they serve no purpose, because at the end of the day, none of it matters. What matters. And this is what Evelyn sort of teaches her at the end is like, Yeah, nothing does matter. But I’m choosing to still give it meaning anyway. And I think and Waymond was like such a great, like, I loved his character, because he was so goofy, just so he was a great comic relief, but also a great plot device. Like he was central to the entire story, but it was played in such a way that you wouldn’t even think it. But because he was the one constant throughout the entire thing. I think that was just so perfect. Like it was it was a plot plot device. And it was a central focal point of the entire story. But you paid no attention to it, kind of like how Evelyn really pays no attention to him up until the very end. Which I I just, it just got me it was it was one of those like, Ooh, is a real good feel good thing. And it was a good way to like I kind of like saw myself a lot and in Waymond a little bit in terms of like, the different characteristics of like, being patient and being kind and choosing to fight with, like loving and acceptance and understanding. Rather than just throwing hands right away. Like, in ways like I saw, like, bits and pieces of myself in there plus, like just generally being a dork and being goofy, but doing it in a way that like it also works like it helps things out.

Josué Cardona 17:49
So this movie has a bunch of I guess, dichotomies like opposites right? There’s almost everything has an opposite and every character like there’s an opposite. Do you all know what’s what the opposite of an everything bagel is?

Lara Taylor 18:05
A stale doughnut.

Josué Cardona 18:13
A googly eye. Look at the and

Link Keller 18:19
yeah, yeah, okay I can follow you there

Josué Cardona 18:21
visually you see you see. So from the very beginning Waymond, like keep its googly eyes on stuff. And he anthropomorphised my the blah, blah, blah, whatever. You know what I mean? He’s like, it’s got eyes, the laundry is is is happier over here than it is over here. He has this way of just bringing joy to everything. Right? It’s like, and his life sucks. Right? And it sucks. This is this is this is the interesting thing, right? Because like, this is the way I see it. Evelyn blames him. But it’s her attitude pushes Waymond away to get to the point where he’s the one asking for a divorce even. And, and he she’s pushed her daughter away. And she realizes that she’s doing the same like, you know, like, she’s she, she is she doesn’t realize that she’s doing this. And it has a lot to do with how her father treated her. Right. And it’s like, it’s a cycle but then they are such opposites but at the same time, like, like, think about it like he’s so patient and happy and or seemingly right and he tries to keep the family together. But also like he’s fed up and he’s he’s ready to move on and he asked for a divorce

Lara Taylor 19:45
and he’s ready to serve divorce papers. At that New Year at the Chinese New Year party like

Josué Cardona 19:52
wants to start the new year fresh. I mean I don’t blame him. That’s a good it’s a good but but it’s like that’s surprising almost So there’s this one scene where the first time that Evelyn verse jumps into the the one where she’s a movie actress, right a Kung Fu, Movie Actress, not the one where she’s a kung fu master with super strong pinkies. That’s a different universe. And she, the moment she comes back from it, she’s she tells her husband, I just saw my life. Without you. It was beautiful. I wish you would have seen it. And again, it’s like, it’s these two feelings going on at the same time. She’s like, like, obviously, she loves him. And she and she, she, she can’t think of anyone else to share it with right in that moment. Like, I really want to share how good my life would be without you. Right? And it’s like, oh, this these type of thing keeps going on throughout the movie, where you have these complete opposites kind of clashing and coming together. And even the entire idea of her powers and her abilities come from the fact that she isn’t good at anything. Right? And the way they explained that, like that’s, that’s a whole thing. That’s, you know, if we have time we’ll get into but yeah, that relationship and the way that the characters are, are framed, and the way that they see the world is fascinating. And that’s why I think I think, I think, like you were saying, Marc, like, oh, you related to, to this character, like, there’s multiple versions of every character. I think

Lara Taylor 21:26
you can relate to one character in one verse. Yeah,

Josué Cardona 21:29
it’s incredibly relatable.

Marc Cuiriz 21:30
And see, here’s the thing too, like, even with like the divorce papers, like you can tell just how much it it’s actually paining him to even want to do this. Like he, I think it’s not even so much that he wants to do it purely for himself. But more like he knows that she’s not happy. And she he wants to do right by her. Because when they’re sitting like when she ends up like, incorrectly verse jumping, and they end up back in the car, and it’s like, oh, yeah, this is when she decided to just go home and do the taxes. He’s explaining how like, he like how much he truly genuinely cares. And like he really wanted to try and make things work. And he’s trying to make the best out of their situation. It’s unfortunate that it didn’t go the way that they had planned when they came to America. But he’s still trying because he still truly, genuinely loves and cares for her. And he wants to do the best thing for her. Even if it means that he has to separate himself from her, but you can see just how much it still physically pains him and even then he’s like, I, I had these things. And yeah, I got them. But I really did not want to.

Link Keller 22:42
Yeah, I see I see that whole exchange, not as Waymond actually wanting a divorce but him strategically using divorce papers as a way to force a confrontation that his wife has been deftly avoiding for a long time within their relationship and him basically being like, well, I can use this tool as a way to like force her to actually see that we have an issue and it’s something that we need to address. I think that’s further cemented by the way that he again uses that whole situation as a way to deal with Deidre, the IRS woman at the end in order to get her to back off on.

Lara Taylor 23:29
genius

Link Keller 23:30
claiming everything from them. Yeah, basically being like, I gave her divorce papers, and that’s why my wife is unhinged, and Deirdre being like, wow, yeah, no, I totally get that. You’re right. Like that is a messed up situation. You guys need a little bit of time. I’ll give you that. And I think that that is how Waymond sees is like this is a tool that he can use the same way that he uses kindness as a way to move through the world. It is just as powerful of a weapon as any other way of approaching living life. But he’s committed to it to being kind and to trying to get others to appreciate that that is a strength and not a weakness about him. I think that’s fucking good.

Josué Cardona 24:18
I haven’t disagreed with someone so much on this podcast since we did frozen 2 I didn’t see it that way. That’s really interesting.

Marc Cuiriz 24:32
Like you got to watch it a third time.

Josué Cardona 24:35
Fourth time

Marc Cuiriz 24:37
fifth time even

Josué Cardona 24:38
Yeah, yeah,

Link Keller 24:39
I just I wrote this down and it’s all over social media. But I think maybe the most romantic line of any thing ever in the whole world is in “in another life. I would have really liked doing laundry and taxes with you.” Like that line is more romantic than when out Alpha Waymond says I have loved you in every universe like Oh yeah, okay, that’s fine, that’s fine

Lara Taylor 25:05
that’s a cliche one in multiverse

Marc Cuiriz 25:07
over used.

Link Keller 25:08
I would’ve like just doing laundry and taxes with you up like bursting into tears, so beautiful

Lara Taylor 25:16
after the movie, I leaned over to Nina and I was like, I would say that I would love doing laundry and taxes with you, but I absolutely hate laundry. But whatever it is and taxes, I’ll still do taxes with you. Yeah, I think that’s, that’s one thing. Josué going back and forth. Talking about going back to your point about the back and forth the push and pull with this, like, she comes back and says to him, the line about I wish you I just saw my life without you. I wish you could have seen it. And she wanted to share that. But the point of the movie at some point is her realizing that she does love him. She does what like it’s, they’ve been on autopilot in their marriage for years. And this concept of love is a choice that we make every day we wake up and choose to be with the person if we’re married to them that we want to be with every day. And it got to a point in their relationship where it wasn’t a conscious choice anymore. It just was the thing. And she realized that she’s drawn to him and almost all of of the of the verses, not the one that that I hate. But, um, I think that it’s something about that, that like she almost every one of these verses, she’s drawn to him in a way and that, yeah, she wants to do laundry and taxes with him and realizes she’s choosing that rather than these other things.

Josué Cardona 26:48
Okay, well, it’s my turn to project now, since we’re all doing that. I see it as her. Like, she can’t enjoy her marriage because she’s unhappy. Right? Like, she tries a bunch of things. And she does not complete them. And it isn’t until she is able to see that like, oh, like it’s not like it’s not anybody else’s fault. Like she’s been holding herself back. And now that she’s like, Oh, well, I can do these things. Like, get that line from Alpha waymond when he says, you aren’t good at anything. And therefore you have more potential untapped potential than any other Evelyn, you the branches that are available for you. Nobody else has access to that because the she It’s like she was frozen and wouldn’t make a decision, she wouldn’t go down a particular road. So she was kind of stuck so that all of those are potentials, right? Because the moment you make a choice, then it limits your options or you create new opportunities, right, but she’s just like stuck in this in this space. And you see it on Deirdre when she if you? If you watch it again, you’ll see that Dierdre goes through all of these different hobbies and things that she did, right? And he says, like, Oh, she confuses hobbies for businesses, but like, oh, no, like, she gets excited about something. But she doesn’t she goes far enough. She doesn’t go so when she gets to see that, like, Oh, I could have been a movie star like I could have I could have done all these things and

Lara Taylor 28:19
I could have been a singer. Yeah

Josué Cardona 28:21
I mean, so many things, a blind singer, right. There’s just so many, the idea of of just that concept alone, like we could do a whole episode on and it’s probably the idea that I’ve thought about the most. But then at the end, right as she as she becomes more and more like Jobu Tupaki and she sees like, oh, yeah, nothing really matters. Because anything is possible. Statistically, you know, like we could do, we could do every single version of this, so it doesn’t matter. But then it’s it’s Waymond showing, again, this is the way I see it. Waymond showing that like, we do have a choice and we can be we can choose to be kind to each other. We can choose to have fun. And and now I think like she she knows she understands it’s not it was never your fault. It was me. And I like that part of you. And then she chooses at the end. She’s like, I’m not gonna kick everybody’s ass in that final battle. Literally what she does in that final battle is that she basically gives everybody something she gives everybody a gift.

Link Keller 29:26
She gives everybody something that they were missing. She gives

Josué Cardona 29:29
or that they like, right? It wasn’t even it wasn’t like it was at different levels. Like when person got a puppy the masochist got spanked in the butt. Like, you know,

Link Keller 29:39
can you imagine, putting that on your fucking resume. Oh my god.

Josué Cardona 29:45
Which part of that?

Link Keller 29:47
I’m an actor. You might know me from getting spanked by Michelle Yeoh. That’s right.

Josué Cardona 29:55
the puppy is the one who jumped on the on the award on the butt plug award.

Lara Taylor 30:01
I called that at the beginning of the movie

Link Keller 30:03
the second they showed that I was like oop,

Josué Cardona 30:05
of course,

Marc Cuiriz 30:06
yeah, I was like this is gonna be used later

Link Keller 30:08
that’s suspiciously shaped

Josué Cardona 30:12
Okay, the listeners who have not watched the movie did this really happen or not? Two people with different kinds of butt plugs and in the middle of a fight, both come at one character one sweeping the floor, the other one in the air kicking and a character goes and flips in the air and catches both plugs and pulls them out as they fly by her.

Link Keller 30:39
Powerful

Josué Cardona 30:39
you gotta watch the movie to know if that actually happened.

Marc Cuiriz 30:45
Oh my goodness.

Josué Cardona 30:47
Thankfully, it’s in slow motion so you can appreciate every moment.

Link Keller 30:51
I gotta say. The choreography of all of the fight scenes are so good. It’s so good.

Josué Cardona 31:00
So in terms of how fun the movie is, right? Like one like there’s an amazing fight with where somebody’s uses a fanny pack. There’s an incredible fight scene where someone uses a riot shield but like a a twirling, like a sign twirler. Right like this. It’s just, it’s just, I mean, I’m so fun.

Lara Taylor 31:25
There’s a raccoon that sits on someone’s head

Link Keller 31:30
Raccacoonie!! I would watch that movie 100%

Marc Cuiriz 31:33
oh 100. I was when they were started talking about ratatouille. And I was like, I love ratatouille too. And then we get it. And I was like

Josué Cardona 31:41
Raccacoonie

Link Keller 31:41
Raccacoonie

Josué Cardona 31:41
back. I mean,

Lara Taylor 31:42
no, not ratatouille, raccacoonie!

Marc Cuiriz 31:46
But I mean, the same concept of it is like I was like

Lara Taylor 31:48
I’m quoting the I’m quoting the movie, Marc.

Josué Cardona 31:51
There’s that part of the way she goes. Oh, it’s like it’s so stupid. Any stupid thing. I imagine it’s happened somewhere like it’s real. There’s a universe where it’s actually happening. So even the mistake of Raccacoonie is just Yeah, no, of course, of course, it happens

Lara Taylor 32:07
true story Raccacoonie is on Mike Chan’s head, Mike Chan from Glee.

Josué Cardona 32:20
That is really good. Yeah. But like, like, that’s, that’s, that’s the realization of hers at the end, right of showing that. There is there’s just because everything is possible, which is just like, in a way, you know, when we say like, if you have everything and nothing matters, or you know, if you can choose from anything like all of that idea, that whole idea. But like, in the end, when you take it to the extreme, it kind of just loops back. Because we do all have options, right? It’s like a doughnut. Yeah. It just or a bagel? Sorry. Right? It just it is. That’s it at the end. She didn’t. She her life was in a place where she thought she didn’t have a choice. And at the end, with all of the choices, she needed to have all of the choices to realize, oh, wait a minute, but I can choose it is a choice.

Marc Cuiriz 33:22
Yeah, that that final fight really it. It really just gave me Steven Universe vibes of like, we can choose to fight it out. I’m not gonna go that route. I’m going to choose the other route and show you guys like, basically like, giving them something that causes them to feel something because I think in some, I think in a lot of cases, like for the followers and everything. Jobu Tupaki made it so like, they were kind of like her in the sense that like now they just became so apathetic towards everything because nothing mattered. And by doing like, doing the certain actions or providing them with like, let’s say like the guy with the perfume about his his wife like a provided them with a sense of feeling like felt something again and then that’s the cause that’s like sort of a pacify them because now they like understood like, it was a way for them to kind of gain the understanding of like,

Lara Taylor 34:17
something matters

Link Keller 34:19
she chose kindness

Marc Cuiriz 34:19
some things do matter, exactly

Josué Cardona 34:21
But even even even the perfume thing, right? Like when you see that scene at the beginning, the guy comes up to her and is like, oh, that perfume Evelyn, right? Like my wife used to wear it. You can tell she’s annoyed. It’s creepy, right? It’s like, ugh, and at the end, she’s like, she realizes Oh, like he’s being genuine. Like, it is the same perfume and it reminds him of her. He’s just you know, like, I didn’t want that in that moment. But at the end, just sprays him right in the face of the perfume. As the smile on it’s like oh bliss Yeah, Let’s talk about depression.

Link Keller 35:06
Yes, yes,

Marc Cuiriz 35:08
plently of that

Link Keller 35:09
as a person who has depression, very deeply related to joy and Jobu’s character, as you know, the call of nihilism of None, none of this matters. None of none of this is truly meaningful in any long term way. So Why care about it. And if you get into that space, it makes the hurt go away, it makes the regrets feel smaller, because it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. And I think that that resonates with a lot of young people, especially. living right now is hard. And there is definitely there is a siren call to just relieve yourself of caring about anything. And I think that the way this movie pushes back against that is really, ultimately, it’s very kind, it’s like, very understanding of why people would feel that way, or why it would be so easy to slide into that space. And then ultimately being like, yeah, that’s understandable. But you can, you can choose to care, you can choose kindness, you can choose being there for people. And I love that. And the scene, with joy, and Evelyn having their final, their final battle, which I think is very important that it is outside of the laundromat. So much of their interactions take place within the laundromat. And this is one where she has finally stepped outside of that space. And after having this conversation in the ultimate fame world with cool Waymond, who’s rich and wears a fitted tux, and is very handsome. And he tells Evelyn like, everybody wants to think that me choosing kindness is a weakness, but it is strategic and it is intentional. And I do it because this is how I want to survive in this world. This is how I want to exist. And that is a choice. And her having that moment of being like, oh, yeah, no, that makes a lot sense. And taking that and using that as a way to face her father, who she feels rejected by and being like, you know what, I don’t care if you’re proud of me anymore. I’m proud of me. And I’m proud of my daughter. And then taking that moment and turning to joy and being like, yeah, shit sucks sometimes. But I still choose to be here with you. That is a choice that I’m making, that I will keep making. And having that emotional relief moment was, I cried, I cried both times I watched it. Um, that actually isn’t the scene that made me cry the most. But it is a scene that made me cry.

Lara Taylor 38:33
She literally is like, you are fat. And you don’t call me and you only come here when you need something. And I still love you and I still choose you and this life. And the fact that like not just like her own faults as a mom. But Joy’s faults is a daughter, I’m accepting those things too the things that you are proud of, and the things you’re probably not proud of. I’m going to accept all of those things.

Link Keller 39:03
It really leans into the cycle of family trauma cycle circles, where her dad was willing to let Evelyn go like if you don’t do what I say I don’t want you you can leave I don’t care, and how much that hurt Evelyn to be let go from him. And so the way that she reacts to that is I I will be there for my child, I will be present. I won’t let her go. But then what Joy needs is not physical presence, but emotional presence and for her mom to like validate her emotional personhood and being gay and being in a long term relationship with another woman and all of this aspect and and the way that joy gets to actually see that that aspect of like, I, I can understand why that you act the way that you do because of how much your parents hurt you. But you don’t see the way that you are hurting me. And trying to communicate that back to her mom is Yeah. Hoo boy.

Josué Cardona 40:21
so she’s, I think about the game Depression Quest, I always like to bring bring up the way that the game shows you. It’s designed to show people what depression is like. And it shows you as the player, you see multiple choices, but as the character those are not all accessible to you. And so when I hear joy, so like just despair, right? That She’s hopeless. She like she feels no hope whatsoever. And, and she’s not like trying to take over the world. She’s trying to create another version of herself and her mother, too. And she tells her all I want it, I was really hoping that you might be able to see things differently. Like she’s like, this is her way of reaching out and asking for help, because she doesn’t see an option. The only option that she saw was suicide. Or like she created something she’s so powerful, she decided to create something that could consume her and make it end so that she could actually die. But she was, but her final plan was like maybe, maybe if someone is like me, maybe they can see something that I don’t see. And at first, it wasn’t, that’s not that’s not what happened right? Like Evelyn just fell into the exact same situation. And and Waymond was able to get her out or like the, the realization that she does like him, and in many different worlds, she enjoys him and like, there is some, there’s something there. And and she if she, she can focus on that instead. That’s a lot in this movie, and so yeah. And so at the end, if she’s like, I still want to go and Evelyn let her go. But then it’s like, actually no I changed my mind come back. And let me let me tell you something that maybe you didn’t have not occurred to you. And I think that’s what you were saying, Lara? It’s like, I think the one thing that hadn’t occurred to her was that it does suck. So what? is kind of like the question, right, trying to try to fix everything, or trying to change everything? And it’s like, I know, we can have you tried just like, what if we, what if we? What if we, what if we actually tried to do this? Maybe we could do things a little differently? It’s like, right, like, you know, in a way, it’s almost like she just accepted even having access to every single possibility she just accepted them. Yeah. it’s all about choice,

Marc Cuiriz 43:24
I think in a way it’s trying to highlight that like it like the choices that those two are making have much more meaning because they have the opportunity and the possibility to do literally anything that they want and be in any universe that they want. So by making the deliberate choice to be in a specific universe together like that, I think, to me, that shows that they are like, our choices have much more powerful meanings other than simply choosing to go left or right. In some cases, but I think like that’s one of the at least for those two in this scenario for them. I think like that’s kind of the biggest point for her to get across to joy is that like, yes, we do have the possibility to do anything and everything. And yeah, statistically, at some point, we are going to do all of that. But let’s make but I’m still going to choose to make this deliberate choice to be right here and choose to be with you. Because this is what I find meaningful and this is what I am wanting to make out of out of all the infinite possibilities. This is what I’m choosing. And that I think is enough of like a movement or a sentiment for joy for her to see like okay, I see now that you are seeing things differently, like Just because we can do everything doesn’t necessarily mean that we have to, or that we are bound or in this case unbound by that. But they can make the choice then to then choose how they want to live their infinite number of lives or their many lives or however this works.

Josué Cardona 45:22
Right. And so I think, I think the choice that she’s making, right it’s like now that I can live every single version of this I can choose in every version to save you to come after you to like be a mom, right? Like the rock is tumbling down the mountain side.

Lara Taylor 45:41
even when they’re just rocks. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 45:45
Just be a rock.

Link Keller 45:50
That shit gets me so hard you guys

Marc Cuiriz 45:53
and that’s a rock fact

Link Keller 45:55
rocks. Yeah, I read that. Originally, that scene where Evelyn and Joy our rocks was going to be narrated over. And Michelle Yeoh suggested that they just have it be silence and have it be text and I think that that is such a good choice.

Josué Cardona 46:19
And it is it is silent. Like completely there’s no sound whatsoever. There’s one point towards the end of the scene that then you settle this here like the wind again, but it is entirely silent. It is

Lara Taylor 46:31
I was I was waiting for my ears to get blown out after switching from that scene.

Josué Cardona 46:40
Is that the part of you cried at the most? Yeah.

Link Keller 46:43
The joy says fuck, and Evelyn says language. It’s really are you? Seriously? And Evelyn’s like, that’s a joke. A big fucking joke. And it just says HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA on the screen and I am wet faced, wet neck. Like my shirt’s a little damp? Oh my god, that got me so hard.

Josué Cardona 47:08
That scene though is like the climax of the fight. Like that’s the moment.

Lara Taylor 47:14
the bonding scene Yeah.

Josué Cardona 47:16
That’s the moment. And I was thinking about this. And I’m curious because I don’t I don’t I don’t know what I think yet. I don’t know what I believe that about this. But that moment, she’s laughing right? Like she’s in she’s she has a genuine moment with her mom, but she’s enjoying it. And throughout the rest of the movie, you would think that she’s having fun, right? Like she’s beating people up with dildos. She’s like, you know, dancing people to death. She’s like professional wrestling. She’s like doing all the some of the the outfits Right? Like, you would think that she’s having a ball. But she’s not smiling. She’s not happy. She’s just like trying to do all that stuff. And then the first time we see her laugh and smile and like having a good time is is the rocks

Lara Taylor 48:03
when she’s a rock. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 48:06
Yeah. Evelyn rock with the googly eyes is hilarious. I mean, that’s just I mean,

Lara Taylor 48:14
then going over the edge of the cliff after when she’s like, I’m out of here, mom.

Josué Cardona 48:21
This book is I mean, this book this movie, like committed to every joke entirely. It’s um…. damn what a movie.

Marc Cuiriz 48:32
this this movie is the definition of committing to the bit

Josué Cardona 48:37
every bit all of them, all at once

Lara Taylor 48:40
all at once. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 48:44
This movie is like, also, it’s it’s very much the matrix like it is. Yeah,

Lara Taylor 48:52
I got matrix vibes with the decision to go left or right at the beginning.

Josué Cardona 48:57
Matrix vibes.

Lara Taylor 48:59
That was the first that was

Link Keller 49:03
explicitly the Daniels have said that that is that is a touch points for what they were doing.

Josué Cardona 49:10
absolutely

Link Keller 49:11
Yeah, yeah, I think the when Evelyn professes her love to Deirdre and is able to do kung fu I think that I know kung fu moments was better than the matrix was better than what when they did it in the the TV show Chuck where He literally says, Oh, I know Kung Fu. Like that moment was so good.

Lara Taylor 49:33
I think Nina when we were watching, it was like, because just saying it isn’t enough. Professing Love is something different than saying it and I was just like, that’s beautiful.

Link Keller 49:50
You really have to mean it.

Lara Taylor 49:51
you have to mean it.

Josué Cardona 49:55
Also,

Lara Taylor 49:55
we know later there was a universe where

Link Keller 49:59
they were in love

Lara Taylor 49:59
They were in love.

Josué Cardona 50:02
Yep,

Link Keller 50:03
it was beautiful.

Josué Cardona 50:05
I’ve watched the Matrix trilogy, a ridiculous number of times. And it, it always, it always surprises me when I go back and I like it’s something I forget about the movie. But then, until I’m watching it again, where the movie 100% just goes with, like the power of love. Like, like, that’s, that’s it, right? Like that is that is everything. And the fourth one actually just like, continues to hammer that home.

Link Keller 50:36
The Wachowskis’ very much like I would say all all of their stuff, all of their stuff that I’ve seen, like that is the through line is the power of love.

Lara Taylor 50:47
Sense 8 it was very much about love. Yeah

Link Keller 50:50
actually last week, after watching everything everywhere all at once. I also made my friends watch the Wachowskis’ first movie Bound 1996 Great movie. Great movie. That’s all about the power of love. lesbian love. And also stealing from mobsters? Hell yeah.

Link Keller 50:50
Yeah, it’s all that’s it. That’s the answer. That’s power of love.

Link Keller 50:59
Power of Love.

Josué Cardona 51:14
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 51:22
No wonder Marc was getting Steven Universe vibes.

Marc Cuiriz 51:26
And the power to change.

Josué Cardona 51:29
Choose? Yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 51:31
Choose to change. Yeah. Like they can choose to make the changes that they want in their lives. Just because it does. In the grand scheme of things, it means nothing. Doesn’t mean that for that universe, it doesn’t have to mean nothing,

Josué Cardona 51:46
right? But but it’s like that. It’s the ascribing meaning to something. Right. It’s like it doesn’t have to be meaningless, right? It doesn’t. I think everything that matters, but like,

Link Keller 51:58
the thing for me is this idea of like, they are not negating the idea that nothing matters. It’s like, Sure, nothing matters. Therefore, any choice that you make is equally meaningless. You get to choose, and that is your power, that you get to choose to decide that it is meaningful for you. And that is the power every human has. I think that that shit is so good. So tasty, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

Josué Cardona 52:25
And yet, like only there’s only two people who can possibly feel that way. And in this whole movie world, and it’s them because they’re able to experience all the rest. Like, for everyone else, that’s not true. right that’s like every No, no. Right? No, but like, it’s not true. Nobody else is experiencing the multiple versions of themselves. Everybody only has the one, right. And so. So the lens that these two people get to see it through is different. But again, the the cycle goes all the way around where it’s like, ultimately, like, there’s a lot of potential, there are a lot of options you do you do have choices. And sometimes it doesn’t feel like you have a choice. And I think having having the ability to do anything. It’s almost I wonder, this is why I go back to the thing at the beginning. Like it’s not, it’s not so much. It’s the power of the power of love is like, in this case is times infinity, right? Because it’s I’m choosing if I’m experiencing all of them at the same time, and I get and I have some agency here, that I’m going to make a particular choice and move those in a direction so I can, right? Like, it’s like you can feel love, you can balance it out so that it’s 50/50 you know, but you don’t have to take it it’s it’s trippy, like if you start thinking about it in that sense, because even though the movie is grounded in that, you know, in the laundromat. But like I really paid attention the last time I saw all of the flashes, when you get to see all different versions of Evelyn. And like there’s an alien version. There’s just like, there’s all sorts of stuff like I don’t know how many they did, I haven’t looked it up.

Link Keller 54:23
But there’s at least one animated version. There’s at least two where she appears very masculine. There’s one I saw this in a tik tok somewhere there’s one where it’s actually a shot of the movie being worked on in in VFX by the team. It’s like a zoom chat. Which side note the people who did the VFX on this movie are self trained group of friends. I think that that is So fucking cool. Like

Josué Cardona 55:02
and during COVID They just did it.

Link Keller 55:03
Yeah. Just at home on zoom with each other five people I think right. It was the full. Yeah. And then also the Daniels helped. Yeah. With some of it. But yeah, I think they have a shot of Michelle Yeoh at the crazy, Rich Asians premier

Lara Taylor 55:26
gallery, the beautiful like red carpet photos of her and the gala dresses.

Link Keller 55:32
It’s her.

Lara Taylor 55:32
It’s her red carpet photos.

Link Keller 55:34
Yeah,

Lara Taylor 55:34
from different things. She’s done.

Link Keller 55:36
We’re just a parallel universe to that universe.

Josué Cardona 55:41
Yeah, there’s a movie called The One starring Jet Li.

Link Keller 55:44
Oh my god, I haven’t thought about that movie in a long time.

Josué Cardona 55:47
I think about that movie all the time.

Link Keller 55:50
That that is the one my when I was a child, and we would rent movies from the blockbuster. My dad was adamant that we do we we don’t. We don’t rewatch movies. Like he was. I was like, I want to watch this one again. He’s like, No, we’re not checking that one out. Again. We’re not I’m not renting that again. Jet Li’s the one, three times three times he rented that movie.

Josué Cardona 56:15
It’s a it’s a fun movie. I rewatched it recently because my mom didn’t remember it. I was like, ma, you gotta watch. The fun thing about that movie is that you see Jet Li as all of these different versions of himself in different universes and parallel worlds, like 20 years ago, Jet Li did it before before Marvel. But it’s so fun, right to see all those different versions. Because ultimately, you’re you’re dealing with these huge ideas. And we see the map of all the possibilities, right, other branching paths, and then we see different versions of her and, and I’m glad that some of them are goofy as hell. Right, like like Raccaoonie, the hotdog fingers,

Link Keller 56:59
the piñatas like

Josué Cardona 57:01
the piñatas, the pinky right like, like that world is just like a like an old Chinese kung fu movie, right? They held the whole the whole universe. But then

Marc Cuiriz 57:12
the universe, where they’re. A children’s drawing?

Josué Cardona 57:17
Yep. Yep. And she stabs herself. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now, I mean, I love the way and I bring that up just to show that or to emphasize what you were saying. Link, like, how it was a small team with a small budget, and yet, you know, how much can you show? You know, like, like, the one the way they did it was like, they had this flashing screen of all the ones he had killed. Right. And it’s like, he had killed like, 95 different versions of himself. And you saw all these different versions, and it was pretty funny. And at the end, you know, it’s like, there’s only three left, and that’s where the movie starts. But here there’s just it’s just like infinite potential. So cool. I love the movie. I like it a lot more the second time.

Link Keller 58:00
Yeah, I liked watching it a second time because I was able to pick up more of the little details that they put in like the opening scene. You see the family

Josué Cardona 58:13
it feels completely different completely different once you’ve seen the movie

Link Keller 58:15
you see the family reflected in a circular mirror and that that the circle is cyclical coming up in symbolism but also the mirror shows up a whole lot and

Josué Cardona 58:30
yeah,

Link Keller 58:32
you know, the idea of they own a laundromat and I don’t know if any of you have been to a laundromat recently, but you’re looking into this whirling vortex and it’s always the overhead lighting gives you just enough reflection you can see yourself reflected in in that whirling vortex and I’m just like, oh, the symbolism is so good.

Josué Cardona 58:56
Yep, yep, yep. When I saw the thing about the googly eyes and contrast with the with the bagel,

Link Keller 59:03
everything bagel

Josué Cardona 59:04
in my mind yeah, blow my mind. Yep. But again, it’s like it’s like visually but also symbolically right it’s like it’s like that is the end versus like joy and happiness and irony that Jobu Tupaki’s name is Joy as well. So good. Anything else on your notes, Link? Or anything else on your mind?

Link Keller 59:33
I really I really like the in the final fight scene. No with with the raccacoonie guy says I’m useless alone.

Josué Cardona 59:46
Because I’m alone

Link Keller 59:47
and Evelyn says we’re all useless alone. Good thing you’re not alone. And that hit me right in the heart that some beautiful shit right there

Lara Taylor 59:56
and then she jumps on his shoulders and starts pulling On his hair, but then but then they swap places. And he gets to do the controlling. It was beautiful.

Josué Cardona 1:00:09
I think hitches a ride at least. Yeah. Anything else from you marc?

Marc Cuiriz 1:00:20
I mean, we’ve already talked a lot about like the the philosophical pieces of things. I feel like I’m pretty satisfied in that regard. Although I could honestly just like keep going back and forth about these sorts of things. In but then that that’s a that’s a that’s a discussion for a different type of podcast,

Josué Cardona 1:00:39
what kind of podcast?

Marc Cuiriz 1:00:40
a philosophy podcast,

Lara Taylor 1:00:43
a six hour philosophy Podcast

Josué Cardona 1:00:46
coming soon on the GT network. Marcus Antonius’ philosophical podcast.

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:00
I mean, I could, I could very well make it more like ancient Greek and Roman, but I don’t, you know, I find philosophy as a good as a good hobby. I don’t think I know enough that I could actually do a podcast on it. I feel like I would need somebody who actually like, is a really big deep diver in philosophy, just so that I can be tested, and also have good debates against.

Josué Cardona 1:01:28
Well, I have watched the matrix multiple times. So um

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:31
you might as well just have a doctorate in philosophy at this point.

Link Keller 1:01:34
Check out Philosophy Tube on YouTube. It’s a great channel. Lots of good content about philosophy.

Josué Cardona 1:01:41
Agreed

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:41
great can’t wait. Can’t wait to just keep binging new things I’ve been binge watching Dragonball Z. And Brooklyn nine, nine.

Josué Cardona 1:01:50
So have you watched Dragon Ball Super?

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:52
Oh, multiple times.

Josué Cardona 1:01:54
Okay. Okay. Just double checking. Yeah. All right.

Josué Cardona 1:01:58
Cool. All right, then. I thought this was gonna be longer, but this is this was good.

Link Keller 1:02:06
You have any final thoughts? Oh, sorry.

Josué Cardona 1:02:09
No, I think I think I’ve spoken a lot.

Lara Taylor 1:02:13
It was a wonderful movie. I feel like I need to watch it again.

Lara Taylor 1:02:15
I highly recommend.

Josué Cardona 1:02:15
I want to watch it again

Link Keller 1:02:18
I guess I guess I just want to other thing in my notes. This scene with Jenny Slate. Wielding her dog as a weapon was maybe the hardest I’ve laughed in a long time.

Josué Cardona 1:02:32
When it flies when it hits like the cubicle and just like flies off. You know.

Lara Taylor 1:02:37
I was actually really glad that the special effects weren’t great in that scene, because I cannot stand animals being injured in any way. And I was just like, oh, that that looks like a stuffed animal

Link Keller 1:02:47
very much. Yes. No, that was great. I loved that. I laughed very hard.

Josué Cardona 1:02:53
The first person perspective into the fridge. Oh, this movie, did that really happen? I don’t know. You have to watch the movie to see if you know, there really was a dog swung around does on its leash.

Link Keller 1:03:09
Does Jamie Lee Curtis teach Michelle Yeoh how to vape. Find out find out watching the movie you’ll never know. Until you until you see it.

Lara Taylor 1:03:20
Does someone play the piano with their feet? I dunno

Josué Cardona 1:03:26
i dunno

Marc Cuiriz 1:03:27
i dunno

Josué Cardona 1:03:29
Where’s that? Where did that ketchup and mustard come from though? That’s the biggest mystery. That’s Lara’s favorite part of the movie.

Marc Cuiriz 1:03:37
I’d rather not know.

Josué Cardona 1:03:39
Remember to remember to reach out to Lara at geektherapist on Twitter with all of your hot dog finger. Questions. Yeah, yep. She’s smiling so much right now. Thank you for joining us for this discussion of everything everywhere all at once. What a movie. Again, very relatable. If you know, the, the GT library for this one would be very, very long. Because I think I think a lot of

Lara Taylor 1:04:12
it included everything. Because it’s everything everywhere.

Josué Cardona 1:04:15
It is everything everywhere and all at once. It would be it’d be very long, because I think a lot of it is like I was joking before about projection. But I’m listening to each of us talk and I’m like, oh, yeah, like we’re just we’re completely just,

Link Keller 1:04:28
I think that’s what makes a great movie is that it is it is so chock full of stuff that you can find details and connect dots and find meaning and make meaning and oh yeah.

Josué Cardona 1:04:47
Yeah. join the discussion, tell us what you think. In any of our community spaces, links are in the show notes, more Geek Therapy, visit geek therapy.org. Thank you for joining Remember to geek out to do good. We’ll be back next week.

Link Keller 1:05:05
mmmBagel!

Josué Cardona 1:05:06
Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place to geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

• Bagel Evelyn / Everything Everywhere All at Once
• Waymond / Everything Everywhere All at Once
• Joy / Jobu Tupaki / Everything Everywhere All at Once
• Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse (2018)
• Frozen 2 (2019)
• Steven Universe series
• Depression Quest (game by Zoë Quinn)
• The Matrix (1999)
• Chuck (TV show)
• Bound (1996)
• Crazy Rich Asians (2018)
• Jet Li’s The One (2001)
• Philosophy Tube (YouTube channel)

Conversation Topics:

* Change
* Consequences
* Cultural representation
* Death
* Difficult emotions
* Family
* Fear
* Feeling alone
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* LGBT Issues
* Love
* Power struggle
* Resilience
* Strong female role models
* Sacrifice for others
* Taking responsibility for one’s actions

Relatable Experience:

* Acceptance
* Clarity/Understanding
* Coming Out
* Death
* Depression
* Divorce
* Fear/Anxiety
* Fighting
* Loss (other than death)
* New Life Event (New Rules)
* Nihilism
* Suicide
* Trauma

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GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.org

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