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#349: The crew talks about characters in media being recast, and apply the metaphor to real life relationships. (Link apologizes for forgetting to mention the extremely good example of Greg from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend until after recording)
Link Keller 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network, where we believe the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. I am link Keller and I am joined by my beautiful co hosts, Josué Cardona.
Josué Cardona 0:31
Link Keller 0:33
Marc Cuiriz 0:34
Link Keller 0:35
and Lara Taylor.
Lara Taylor 0:38
Link Keller 0:40
Today we are talking about recasts in things, probably mostly TV and movies, but I don’t know we’ll see how it goes.
Josué Cardona 0:55
No, no, no, mostly in real life.
Link Keller 0:57
Mostly in real life, watch out for Body Snatchers. They’re everywhere. You gotta stay on your toes.
Lara Taylor 1:03
For the record. One of one of the examples I have is a video game example.
Link Keller 1:08
Look at that perfection. Yeah, so. So yeah, we’re gonna be talking about recasts and how they impact the way that we think and feel about the media or the characters and and then probably try and make some metaphors to real life. We’ll see how that part goes also. All right,
Josué Cardona 1:41
yeah. Lara, why. What what did you like? You want to talk about recast? What what is a recast or
Lara Taylor 1:46
a recast is when you have someone playing a character representing a character and then either in the middle of the series or like in the middle of the season. In between seasons, something happens, someone, someone dies, someone’s difficult to work with, they got a better offer at another show or something, something happens you have a new person representing that character. This came up because I was watching Superman and Lois and in the first episode of the new season, they recast Jonathan Kent. The one of the one of the main characters, yeah, he’s one of the two twin boys, Superman and Lois’ kids. He, I think it came up because usually in a recast, and we can talk more about this, I typically have a hard time accepting the new person in the role. And there’s many reasons for that. But in this particular situation, I actually think after only watching him he was only a handful of scenes because the he wasn’t the focus of the episode. I prefer him as Jonathan Kent.
Josué Cardona 3:00
Lara Taylor 3:02
He, I think the actor tried to mimic the mannerisms of the previous actor who played the role. He looks more like his twin brother. They’re fraternal twins. But he looks more like, like the previous one was almost a blond haired kid with a family of like, dark haired people. And so he didn’t quite fit in. And I think this, this kid fits in pretty well. And it’ll be interesting to see what else he does. I may regret my decision of saying that I liked him in this role. Because I’ve only seen him in one episode, but we’ll see how it goes throughout this season.
Josué Cardona 3:40
Yeah, you may change your mind. I don’t know. To me that’s surprising. Cuz would you say that that? That’s usually the experience? Or do usually,
Lara Taylor 3:49
I usually I usually hate recasts. There’s I can probably think of some examples of ones that I don’t mind. I grew up watching soap operas and in soap operas, people are recasted all the time. In in those situations, I think I would just I wouldn’t like them at first. And then I’d get used to them in the role and be like, oh, yeah, no, I don’t miss that other person. But there are other situations where I get attached to the person. This is how I envisioned this person, this character, how they speak how they move, and in some, usually it doesn’t work very well for me. I think that’s the case for a lot of people. In general, change is hard for people but especially if you have a visual representation of a person, and it’s it’s different from recasting in like, you reboot a show or you reboot a franchise, right like we’ve had how many different Batman’s we talked about that a lot. And everybody has their favorite one, but that’s very different from this continuity. This is supposed to be the exact same Batman as the Batman in the movie before and it’s a different person that actually We
Link Keller 5:00
I actually have a Batman example. It’s not Batman. It’s Katie Holmes was in Batman Begins as Rachel and then she got recast and was played by Maggie Gyllenhaal, who in my mind when you’re like talking about that set of Batman’s, you’re all like the lady I picture, Maggie Gyllenhaal not the original, but that’s a rare example
Lara Taylor 5:35
because she is very important in that second one
Link Keller 5:38
Josué Cardona 5:39
I completely forgot about Katie Holmes. Yeah, yeah. Hmm.
Lara Taylor 5:50
Some things that can make it easier for me with the is when the series plays with it and makes fun of itself. And I’ve one of the recasts I absolutely hated although I also did not like the movie in general was the mummy franchise. I love the first two. Rachel Weisz is Evie. I’m just gonna say that was that was pivotal to my young queerness. I will just put that out there. And I don’t even know who it was. That was recast as her in the third movie, the third mummy movie that people were like, there was a third mummy movie? But they make the joke like, oh, it seems like you’re a whole different person. And I thought that was funny. And it went along with also the bad humor of the rest of the film. But it was I mean, it made it easier for me to I hated the movie. So it was easier for me to like her. I just hated the whole thing.
Link Keller 6:56
The actresses name is Maria Bello, she played Evelyn in the third movie
Josué Cardona 7:02
oh really? I like Maria Bello. I didn’t know I didn’t know she was.
Lara Taylor 7:06
Well, now you have to watch it.
Josué Cardona 7:07
Yeah. I didn’t remember there was a third one.
Lara Taylor 7:12
Gently isn’t that one, I think as the Emperor,
Link Keller 7:15
yes. And Michelle Yeoh, which maybe that’s the reason to watch
Lara Taylor 7:19
okay, maybe I need to rewatch it.
Josué Cardona 7:26
I’m surprised by all of this.
Lara Taylor 7:29
I like blew your minds. Yeah, I
Josué Cardona 7:30
know. Yeah. So when you brought this up, the first thing I thought of was like, how much it can bother us? Sometimes it can be like you said it, sometimes it can be better. But it reminded me of, like, when I said earlier, real life? Yeah, like sometimes we have, like Marc Cuiriz is is not playing the role of Dr. Baby Brandon Saxon, right. But but he like took over that, that that role, you know, and so that’s kind of where we’re where my mind went to, when you started looking at an analogy there. Where sometimes you have people in your life sometimes a partner, sometimes a parent. sometimes even siblings, right, like, they can take kind of that, like, they take the room from that belong to somebody else, or somebody kind of takes that role. And it can also be difficult can be better sometimes. It um, it varies. And I’m and I’m wondering how, how much that works like how, how much how similar it is or how helpful it would be to use those examples of recasts and in movies, and TV shows and video games and even animation. Where to me animation is weird. It’s like everything is the same but the voice is different. There’s there’s something
Lara Taylor 9:06
there’s something very off about that Josué I’ve talked about life as strange a million times on this show. I love the game. I have been obsessed with Chloe and Ashly Burch her voice actress and Ashly Burch really wanted to come back for before the storm and could not because of the strike I don’t want to sit like nothing against the voice actor in the second one. However, that was not Chloe to me. I did not hear Chloe she did it. okay job of like trying. Like there’s something about like I said with with Superman and Lois, the new actor. He was able to mimic mannerisms and things with this. It’s purely the voice and that that’s kind of hard to do without sounding I I don’t know completely off all I’m gonna say is I never finished playing before the storm and so I don’t think that’s because the game was bad
Josué Cardona 10:12
really? it was because of like you couldn’t get over Chloe’s voice?
Lara Taylor 10:15
I don’t I don’t I don’t think it was that either. i
Josué Cardona 10:18
Link Keller 10:18
Lara Taylor 10:19
Link Keller 10:19
exclusively that but that was a factor.
Lara Taylor 10:23
I don’t I don’t think. I don’t know necessarily but I have a theory as I think about this now that I connected with Chloe right in the game, and it just didn’t feel like the same connection in the second game. I don’t know if it was the voice. I don’t know if it was I
Link Keller 10:45
Lara Taylor 10:46
on to something else or but I just didn’t. I never finished it. And that first I did text Josué after I finished the first chapter of the second game, which is the prequel and said it wrecks me emotionally. But the connection might be different. I don’t know. I’m just gonna put that out there. I have a hard time with change everybody.
Josué Cardona 11:14
Lara Taylor 11:15
however I do get used to things I like I said soap operas. The biggest example I can say of this is the Harry Potter movies. I love the first number door Richard Harris is one of my favorite actors and has been i i loved him in Gladiator. He seemed like an old friendly grandpa kind of guy and I hated when they switched to I can’t remember his name. Yeah.
Link Keller 11:44
Lara Taylor 11:46
Yeah, I hated that. And then he got he grew on me as because there was no going back. He died so we go on to a new actor there’s no going back. And as as it went on movies went on okay, this seems like Dumbledore but he’s not my Dumbledore my Dumbledore is one from the first two movies you know
Link Keller 12:07
Yeah, I never really recovered from that. Granted, it wasn’t like I had like a strong emotional connection to Dumbledore in the first place. So it wasn’t like a big deal. But I was always like this Dumbledore is not doing it for me. Why is he bein’ so mean?
Lara Taylor 12:24
And then also in these situations, like they also changed director at that time and directors changed in future movies. So the theme and the tone and where they were going with Dumbledore was different from those first two movies. So it wasn’t just the recast what like I said, I was able to kind of overtime,
Link Keller 12:47
Lara Taylor 12:48
Josué Cardona 12:50
How much? Or how different Do you think your experience would have been Lara With before the storm, like the wrecking of in that first chapter, if it would have been, you know, had it been Ashly Burch instead? Do you think it would have made a difference?
Lara Taylor 13:09
It might have like, literally the thing voice acting and I mentioned this when we were talking about The Last of Us last time we talked I can recognize the voice really well. So the last of us, as Ashley Johnson is in The Last of Us show I hear Ellie like I don’t hear like I could hear it and feel it. I guess in the same way that music hits emotional notes for me, so does sound and voice so with before the storm that wasn’t it didn’t sound like her to me. And I played horizon for Horizon Zero Dawn and instantly I was like, oh, it’s Chloe, even though it’s Aloy. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 14:05
So So was it? Was it distracting? Or was it uncomfortable? How would you describe it?
Lara Taylor 14:15
A bit distracting? Probably because I was trying to compare the two the whole time.
Josué Cardona 14:21
Okay, and then link for you. Dumbledore was it was it like that? Like was it just so distracting every time he was on screen? That it like pulled you out of the movie?
Link Keller 14:30
It was more so that like the vibes had changed. I think just having any any old white guy in a in a robe functionally works. It’s just that the vibes change
Lara Taylor 14:45
Link Keller 14:47
I think like with Ashly Burch specifically like she has done so much voice acting, and I have been a big fan of her work since like 2008. So I think having a switch at all is like you have to sort of reconceptualize internally. And that can be like a very quick process, or that can be like more involved. But I think having somebody that you already really care about, and like their work, there’s like an extra layer of Oh, I forgot the word I’m looking for. There’s like an extra barricade that you have to get through. Because like, it’s, it’s different. It’s like, that’s the thing, but it’s like, it’s different from the person I really liked. So it’s like an extra layer there.
Lara Taylor 15:49
I think a lot of people who like Netflix’s The Witcher, are going through that with, with Henry Cavill. Leaving and
Link Keller 15:57
yeah that one, that’s gonna be an interesting one.
Lara Taylor 16:01
Yeah. The two of them are very different. They’re so different. So different. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 16:11
Yeah, there’s a big difference between recasting a supporting character versus a leading
Lara Taylor 16:18
the main character. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 16:21
The titular character, I, because so what this made me think was of like, maybe your friend moved away, or a parent died, and now you have a step parent, and like, you’re having an event, right? Or there’s an experience, and then you’re thinking, like, it’s almost intrusive, right? The thought of like, well this is okay, but I wish the other person was here, which could just be distracting and could ruin the experience of, of what you’re trying to do. And the feeling sucks, I mean, despite what happens later, but that that can be the again it can just pull you out and be extremely distracting.
Link Keller 17:04
Definitely, comparison is at the root of the discomfort there. is like our brains are wired for pattern recognition. And comparing is a big part of pattern recognition. And so when we come across this threshold point of like, the pattern has changed. Better. Doo doo doo doo doo, compare and contrast, run, run the diagnostics here is like that’s that’s where it can get really discomforting.
Josué Cardona 17:38
What’s funny, because Because Lara said, it’s it was like your mind, right? It was a very cognitive explanation for Chloe. It was like, No, I kept comparing right in my mind. But Link, you said, it was the vibes were different, right? And it just felt really interesting.
Link Keller 17:56
So like when those movies came out, like a young teen, and so my relationship to Harry Potter was very different. And my relationship to watching movies was very different. Like, I don’t know, Dumbledore the actor’s name either of them until way later, like I was very much. Daniel Radcliffe is the only name I’m going to remember. That’s not true. Also, Emma Watson.
Lara Taylor 18:25
That’s the one you should remember more.
Link Keller 18:30
But yeah, definitely. Then being like, I don’t know. 14. Nish when it came out? 15. Maybe. It was very much more like, I didn’t like the vibes. Yeah, but that that switch happened in the third movie. And the third movie was my favorite movie. Because Daniel Radcliffe has the best hair in that movie.
Lara Taylor 19:00
everyone has got their own criteria.
Link Keller 19:02
I don’t want to talk about Harry Potter anymore.
Josué Cardona 19:05
So Richard Harris only played Dumbledore in the first two?
Lara Taylor 19:11
two. Yeah. Yeah. And then he died. Okay, I know. Also, we’re both Chris Columbus movies.
Link Keller 19:19
Josué Cardona 19:20
that means but that means the other guy played it for six movies.
Lara Taylor 19:23
Yes. Well, and still the the one that is the beginning one is my favorite.
Josué Cardona 19:31
Lara Taylor 19:33
For multiple reasons, not just like, I tend to like, first, so like, the first person to play the
Josué Cardona 19:41
Lara Taylor 19:41
but also, I just I liked the tone of the movies and the tone of his character in those movies, more so than the others. Like when we got to Goblet of Fire, and he’s like, yelling at Harry all the time. I’m like, what you’re supposed to be like, you’re supposed to be looking at For him friendly guy,
Link Keller 20:01
those were the bad vibes coming from like being obsessed with the book series. And so it’s like, as those movies went on, they separated more and more from the source material. And so it’s like as that happens, like, oh, I don’t like this, it’s not what I wanted here. I don’t care now. I don’t care now.
Josué Cardona 20:24
I do not like the experience. And I’m not used to it very, very rarely have I had the experience of reading the book and watching the movie. Like reading the book first and watching the movie, I don’t mind so much watching the movie and then reading the book.
Lara Taylor 20:37
That’s usually the way to go for me, because then it adds more to rather than takes away from
Link Keller 20:43
there, there are so few examples of going from a movie, or going from book to movie is an improvement. It’s almost always worse. And so I just like, if you read if you read the book first, and it’s really good, like, prepare yourself to be disappointed.
Lara Taylor 21:07
There are a few times either way you’re like, Yeah,
Josué Cardona 21:11
well, I don’t even mean it in that way. I mean, in terms of like, how distracting it can be
Lara Taylor 21:18
with that comparison,
Josué Cardona 21:19
right? Yeah, yeah, cuz like, for me, movies are more. They activate more of my senses. We’ve talked about aphantasia, I can’t really picture stuff from the book. So having said when I read something, and it’s just like, Okay, it’s, I don’t mind a different version. Like, I’ve talked about that before. Like, I don’t, I don’t mind a different adaptation of the source material. Whether it’s good or bad. I don’t, that doesn’t. Whether I like it more or less, doesn’t really bother me during the thing. It’s more like, oh, in the book, like the story has been, I know what’s gonna happen next. And it’s not as exciting. But when I’m, yeah, but but then the book, it’s like, oh, well, I have like a visual reference for some of these things. Kind of, and now I’m reading it. And, and there’s more to see. So it doesn’t feel like it’s as spoilery plus it take me forever to read through a book.
Lara Taylor 22:12
one thing that I also think I have a hard time with in recasts is the, the moment where you see this person, new person, because a lot of times you don’t know like with this character on Superman and Lois, Jonathan, I didn’t know they were recasting him. Same thing when I watched the Fosters, and they replaced the actor for Jesus did not know. And there’s a moment of like, The fuck is wrong with me? Do I not recognize this person? Or did they just re Did they recast? And I don’t know. And then I immediately have to go to like IMDB and look it up? And because I’m like,
Link Keller 22:51
Did I did I slip into another timeline? Like, who is that?
Lara Taylor 22:56
is my brain damaged? Like, what is what is going on? Because as part of the show, or the movie, or whatever they’re like, going on is nothing has changed. Because for the characters, nothing has changed. So there’s that moment of like, Did I miss something?
Josué Cardona 23:16
Yeah, yeah. um Marc, what do you what do what are your thoughts up to now?
Marc Cuiriz 23:23
You know, when this topic came up, I think when you when you guys posted the topic yesterday, I started thinking, I was like, Huh, what are what are some examples of things that I have watched, or that I’ve just sorta taken in? That has done this? Like, it does a lot of the recasting and yes, Harry Potter came up. And really, the only thing that started coming to my mind was the Halloween Town movies. And I don’t necessarily know why because I I was never really much of a big like Halloween person. Just because I’m, I don’t like spooky, spoopy things. It terrifies me. So even with like, the Disney stuff, I just wasn’t that much into like the Disney movies. But I know like with my wife, she really enjoys watching those movies. So every time we’re on Halloween, or watching the Halloween Town movies. And so when they recast Marnie, I remember that my reaction was the same with like, Wait, hold on,
Link Keller 24:30
who’s that? That’s not Marnie!
Marc Cuiriz 24:33
Exactly who is this woman? I don’t I don’t recall. But I think the more I thought like the more I think about this, the more I am sort of remembering a time where the sort of treads like the transition from like a recast was something that like got eased into it to me for me, and so it kind of helped me sort of be able to tackle the changes that I inevitably would have to face when I was like nine or 10. And my parents are going through a divorce. And that’s Blue’s Clues.
Link Keller 25:09
Oh my god, it’s such a good pull marc! Oh, yeah, Blue’s Clues!
Marc Cuiriz 25:13
so, so one as a young child who grew up watching Blue’s Clues, had the notebook had the shirt had everything regarding like, when it came to Steve, that’s my guy. That was that was my, my host for Blue’s Clues. And so when they were recasting him, because he was leaving the show, and they were bringing in this new person, they like had to, they found a way to be able to incorporate it into work it so they can write him off the show and effectively have him be recasted. But it still fit with the story, it still worked. And it kind of helped me at that age, sort of be able to cope with the idea of change, no, like, Hey, this is a part of things like people are growing up, people are going off and doing things. And that’s okay. Because, you know, even though this is this is a new person and their, their vibe and the way they do things are different. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad thing. And so when I was 10-11, going through the divorce with my parents, it sort of helps me like understand, like, alright, this is the change, and this change sucks. However, it just because the change is different, and at there are certain aspects of it that do suck, that doesn’t necessarily mean everything has to suck, everything has to be bad. And so that’s what started me kind of looking at the positives and the good things that were happening in my life. And then as I was continuing to grow and to change and develop as a as a human being. And yeah, and then just knowing that, like, if I really wanted to, I knew that I could always go back to Steve because I used to have like the movies and stuff like that. So it was something that I can always go back and revisit. But still that idea of the slow transition from changing from one host to another especially on like a kid show like that. I thought to me like that, that really did help me that was very influential and kind of set me up to be able to cope with the many changes that would happen throughout my life. So that’s my pull.
Josué Cardona 25:13
Lara Taylor 25:25
Steve to the rescue
Link Keller 27:36
love all my love to Steve. I have not watched any blues. Sorry, not watched any Blue’s Clues episodes of the middle guy, but I have watched the newer ones with Josh love Josh. He’s great. All respect to Josh.
Marc Cuiriz 27:56
I do like Joe. That was the middle guy Joe.
Link Keller 28:00
Marc Cuiriz 28:01
liked him. Yeah, his name’s Joe. I do want to watch the Blue’s Clues movie because it brings them all back together.
Link Keller 28:10
yeah! That’s so cute.
Marc Cuiriz 28:11
I just, I just gotta find some some time to watch it.
Josué Cardona 28:16
I do like, I do love that point of like, how there’s good and bad ways to transition.
Link Keller 28:25
Just like straight up, like we’re not gonna say anything about it. We’re just doing it and people will respond how they respond. But I love the so much extra care was taken because it’s a children’s show. It’s for children that may be the first time like that conceptually ever occurred like that. Where is Steve going??
Lara Taylor 28:44
to prepare kids that age. My co workers who had toddlers, switching preschools and from preschool to kindergarten had a really hard time saying goodbye to their friends and their teacher. So having that experience could be really good for them to have that in a setting where they’re at home with their family being able to be like oh well Steve is leaving you know
Josué Cardona 29:07
terminating with your therapist. Like without without like that that process of termination like the longer it is the better because yeah can be it can be devastating. If that’s like handled correctly
Lara Taylor 29:22
and how it’s weld correctly, right like I think I mentioned earlier the reason that I have the ones I have an easier time with is when the show or whatever makes a joke about it. Right? And makes it it’s known that that is a new person. Roseanne back when that was show was happening and is now the Connors they they switched the Asterix actress for Becky and I made a joke about it and I noticed it and I got over it more quickly. When they changed. The actress who is the original actress is now back on the Connors as Becky She was always on the Connors when they brought her back Sarah Chalke was the one who changed to on Roseanne. And then on the Connors I can’t remember her name, but the original actress is now her. And there was an episode where they had both of them. And it was they made a joke about it. And it was funny like
Link Keller 30:22
Lara Taylor 30:24
It made it like a it addressed it in my brain made it okay for there to be a difference and a change. Even that’s like a level between like, no acknowledgment, and
Josué Cardona 30:39
ignoring it completely.
Lara Taylor 30:40
And in the in the Steve thing, like there’s steps in between. And I think you’re right, Josué, like saying goodbye to a therapist, I just said goodbye to 25 clients, and in changing jobs. And it was really hard, but I gave them all a month to get ready and try and make a plan and figure out. Okay, are they going to try and come with me to my new job? Are they going to try and switch to someone else at the current place? Do they need therapy anymore? What’s going to be the best step forward and having that chance and given time?
Josué Cardona 31:16
Yeah. This is this is why. I mean, this is one of the reasons why I love Dr. Who the when the original actor, you know, 45 years ago, left the show, they came up with a reason and an explanation. Kind of like you were saying, Marc, right? And they said, Oh no, this character, the character is an alien. And you know, if he gets hurt badly enough, instead of dying, he just, like rebuild his his body. That was a way that they, they made it to be able to recast that actor
Link Keller 31:50
was genius level planning, strategizing,
Josué Cardona 31:54
I know. And so they had this whole thing, right where like this, again, it was in the 60s 50s, late 50s, early 60s. And it’s like, it just like faded out. And then this other character was there. But then with that there was like, Oh, they look different. They also they kind of have a different personality. You know, like, there’s, there’s a reason for all of it. It’s like, Oh, why doesn’t he act the same exact way? Or why isn’t she you know, do this? Or it’s like, oh, no, because it’s when they got reconstituted, you know, they they became they’re the same person, but they’re a little different. And that is just upfront. And that is addressed always in at least a couple episodes. And the David Tennant change was one where people had like two years to get used to, like you knew, like you always know who the next actor is going to be to play the character. And so you and you know, when the character is going to leave, it’s never like, there’s never like midseason they just die
Link Keller 32:54
Josué Cardona 32:55
and so far so far. Right? I mean, sort of they kind of almost at that one time. David Tennant again, but David Tennant had basically had this series of movies, and you knew they were the last or the specials, and those were the last specials. And in the last one, he even has this whole scene where he’s like, okay, it’s happening now. And he goes and he says goodbye to all his friends. And it takes like another half hour, right to do this. But it was such a it was such a beautiful way to say to say goodbye to a character to an actor and a version of the character that was probably the most popular since like the fourth one in the 80s. And just like brought the show to greater popularity than it had ever had. And so to have that time to kind of process it and go through it. And every time it happens, you get the transition in one in one episode. It’s like, they don’t just like finish the episode. And then the next one, right? It’s someone new starts. It’s like you get that that handoff. There.
Link Keller 32:59
the Blue’s Clues treatment
Josué Cardona 33:03
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you see them and then there’s always somebody or usually there’s someone there to. Not always no, no, that’s not true. I was gonna say there’s someone there who reacts to that, to the difference. That’s not always true. But it is it is something that makes it a lot easier. To, to, to get used to and like I am very emotionally invested in that show. And so every time they’re like, I’m not ready. But they prepare me for that termination. And, and I love it. Yeah, of course, these examples are very, very rare. It’s like I’m thinking of like live theater, like you can you can see the show, you know, one night and then the next night. It’s different people. It’s not even like the whole new cast, like some people are different. And that’s constantly happening there. And in there, it’s almost different, right? Because you expect it sort of
Link Keller 34:55
it’s part of the medium.
Lara Taylor 34:57
Yeah, and also most of the time the vibe doesn’t change for that, like, most of time.
Josué Cardona 35:04
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, there’s still something right? You’re like, oh, like, they look very different or they don’t sing exactly the same. And you may have a favorite, but that’s almost part of the fun of it. Because you can go see it
Lara Taylor 35:16
Josué Cardona 35:17
Yeah, there’s a new cast. And then it’s like, oh, and then you can compare, but like you said, Link, that’s like part of the, the medium. So it’s hard. Like, if you’re going into a play, or you know, any live performance, and you’re thinking to yourself, Wait, no, I don’t want them to stop. Like, first of all, how are you going to see his live show so many times, and then second of all, like, that’s, that’s just part of it. Like,
Link Keller 35:44
that’s sort of built in to the to the medium to have that changing? aspect is like part of it, especially when you’re looking at like, older plays, like Shakespeare plays, it’s like part of, and I loved it as part of the playfulness of plays is that you get to change those aspects, right? The one The one time I got to go see Shakespeare live in Santa Cruz, at their outdoor theater space, they did Romeo and Juliet, but it was like, ah, oh, uh oh.
Josué Cardona 36:27
Link Keller 36:31
sorry. I just had a moment. Um, it was sort of like Romani themed. So it was like that was the costuming choices. Those were the like music aspects they chose for like accompaniment, it was all sort of themed around that instead of like we’re doing, you know, Shakespeare style Shakespeare. It’s like, No, we’re playing with it. We’re having fun. I thought that that was really cool to get to see that, especially after having read Romeo and Juliet in high school and seeing the movie that they showed us in high school and getting to see these different versions of the same stories, like that’s built into the enjoyment of a play is like having that sort of metamorphosis is a part of it. That does not apply so much to film, more so to TV shows less so to film on a continuum here.
Josué Cardona 37:26
And less so to life.
Link Keller 37:29
Josué Cardona 37:30
right. Like you don’t come in thinking people are going to die. People are going to leave. You know, and people like, you think about death death a lot, Link. Most people right like you, don’t you even though even if you know, right?
Lara Taylor 37:46
a lot of us expect that. But that’s later that’s for later that’s down the line. That’s not now
Josué Cardona 37:51
like even again, cognitively, you might know. But you’re not necessarily prepared. And like how much can you prepare for? For that piece? Especially when other than soap operas? You know what you’re invested for decades in the show?
Lara Taylor 38:04
And in soap operas when people die, they come back
Josué Cardona 38:06
Yeah, yeah. But you know, you’ve known someone for decades. And then, and I’m not even just talking about them dying, right? Like we’ve talked about divorce, we’ve talked about, you know, you can be in a long term relationship. And then suddenly, sure, your new partner is not the same partner. But now they’re a partner, right? Like they’re taking that role.
Link Keller 38:30
Josué Cardona 38:30
we can have a separate polyamorous conversation.
Link Keller 38:34
I actually wasn’t covering that up. So thank you, for you bringing that up. No, I was gonna say I feel like the metaphor doesn’t fit for certain relationship roles, like having parents and then getting step parents is like, that’s not really a replacement. Same with like, step siblings. I’m sure that there are instances in which it can be applied in that way. I think it the metaphor fits more for other types of roles, like your best friend in school, or who your boss is. housemates, like those kinds of things. I feel like that fits better for the recasting metaphor. But yeah,
Lara Taylor 39:21
there are some aspects to the parents that I like, I think about so with my mom dying and my dad remarried step. I have a stepmom there was the piece of the comparison. There was a lot of comparing there. And that’s different. Then, if my mom were still around, right. And there is no recasting of her role. It’s just a similar role. That’s, I guess, the comparison was always there. That’s the closest I could get to that fitting in that situation, but yeah, I think A lot of like, these comparisons of people and like the most part, it was, I was comparing my stepmom to my mom a lot and it drove her nuts. Because I was a teenager, and I was mean about it. And then also relationships. And as time has gone on, I compare, say, My stepmom to my mom less. And I compare Nina let to my, my previous relationships a lot less than I did when the relationships were new.
Josué Cardona 40:28
Because because the because the roles change over time, right? Like if you’re home, right? If you’re like living with both of your parents, and then some time passes, and one of them is replaced by another again, whether divorce,
Lara Taylor 40:41
actual replaced or not. Yeah,
Josué Cardona 40:43
it’s like, oh, like, now it’s breakfast every day with this person, and this person is taking me to school, or it can be it again, it doesn’t even have to be a parent. But it’s like that, that role that suddenly gets put there, right? Like you don’t, you didn’t get to have that adult relationship with your mom. So like you, you can’t really compare that
Lara Taylor 41:01
to my which my sister has your older sister, my older sister was my guardian when my mom passed. Yeah. And so
Josué Cardona 41:08
that’s a great example
Lara Taylor 41:09
she took on that role. And now we have a different relationship. It’s more like we’re sisters and friends. But they’re still that like, you took care of me, you were my caretaker, you were my parents for a while. And that took that took a lot. That took not as long as it took me and my dad to get to like, Hey, we’re hanging out like, like buddies as adult child and parents, then, but my sister and I did take a while to get to that. And to her not being a parent to me, as in like her treating me like a child. So since my family doesn’t listen to this, my brother in law still treats me like I’m a child. So
Josué Cardona 41:57
stop acting like you’re a child, Lara.
Lara Taylor 41:59
Josué Cardona 42:01
You’re an old person.
Lara Taylor 42:02
I’m everybody’s 40. Everybody.
Josué Cardona 42:06
Everybody on the show is 40 it’s true.
Marc Cuiriz 42:09
Josué Cardona 42:11
But I think I think there’s like anything helpful here. Right? It’s like what you were talking about Marc, like, if any of these changes, ideally, there would be
Lara Taylor 42:22
Josué Cardona 42:23
a lot of preparation and conversation and the kind of like the handoff from from one to another, some kind of kind of,
Link Keller 42:31
just contextualizing it, right?
Josué Cardona 42:32
Link Keller 42:33
just having that like, this is going to happen, you’re gonna have feelings about it. And that’s okay. Like, just having somebody like, state that and be like, show you that. It’s like, big deal. It’s not often something we get in real life. I’m having the realization that maybe the reason that the metaphor isn’t working for me is that the relationships I’ve had throughout my life don’t fit together in that way. I’m like, Oh, wait, maybe it’s me. Ohhh, oh.
Lara Taylor 43:12
and sometimes, and I think this is where the the idea of the parent does become, like, something that you can’t really replace the whole thing. With preparation. My dad sat me down, and I was like, Okay, I started dating this person, I want you to meet her. She’s really important to me. She’s not replacing your mom, all that conversation. And yet, we still had issues, probably less than we would have if we hadn’t had that conversation to prepare me. But it was still a rough ride. From when I was 15 to when I was probably 21 and moved out of the house. So
Josué Cardona 43:54
my my mom and dad. By the time I I learned that they were getting divorced between that moment. And when my father remarried and left me at my grandmother’s house alone. It was three months.
Link Keller 44:13
Josué Cardona 44:13
it was not
Link Keller 44:15
I took psychic splash damage from that. jeeeesus
Lara Taylor 44:19
Yeah, very different. Very different experience. Literally. My dad said. We had two conversations. There was one that was like, How would you feel about me starting to date somebody?
Link Keller 44:31
I’m sorry. That’s such a that’s such an important conversation to have, especially with your child, but in my mind, I’m like he was already dating.
Lara Taylor 44:38
No, actually, he wasn’t.
Link Keller 44:40
was he though? Because that sounds like I’m asking you a quotation marks hypothetical.
Lara Taylor 44:46
my stepsister had was trying to set him and her mom on a blind date kind of thing. Like they knew each other through work. And she my stepsister pushed the two of them to go on a date. And so it He didn’t want to say yes to the date until he had asked how I felt because
Link Keller 45:04
that’s really sweet.
Lara Taylor 45:05
But then by then it had been three and a half years. So he he waited a long time. And so it was nice that he had that conversation. I had feel I have a feeling he probably would have gone no matter what I said. But he would have handled the conversation, he would have handled the conversation about it,
Link Keller 45:23
Lara Taylor 45:24
in a different way. Yeah, yeah.
Josué Cardona 45:27
And, and so there are different versions of this too. Like, it could be a pet, right? And suddenly you have a new pet. Some people get the same
Lara Taylor 45:35
the gold the goldfish that dies, somebody’s parents literally just put a new goldfish in the bowl.
Josué Cardona 45:40
But but some, some pets like they get some people get the same breed over and over again, right? They’re using the same dog house, they’re sleeping in the same place. Like there’s, there’s like this replacement, and unfortunately,
Link Keller 45:52
The Simpsons snowball and snowball 2
Josué Cardona 45:55
right right, But also, like, there are people who have lost children very young, and then they have, you know, another child, and it’s not a replacement, but like, there’s still that thing of like, oh, like, if you haven’t?
Lara Taylor 46:10
Josué Cardona 46:12
yeah, no, no, but but like, just like, when we talked about the comparisons and, and the feeling like all that stuff is it just it can be very, very hard and no one prepares you for, for those things. So So I have I have a question now to kind of start moving us towards wrap up. What has it felt like when you were recast?
Link Keller 46:37
Marc Cuiriz 46:41
Oh, man, see, I could take this in a lot of different directions. But that’s mainly because I think growing up, I was always the person that would have rather been recasted than me actually having to do the recasting.
Josué Cardona 47:03
Marc Cuiriz 47:04
I was a person that very much preferred, to kind of be left behind because I didn’t want to risk hurting other people’s feelings. And so if I didn’t want to be friends with somebody, I let the friendship naturally sort of die out, and then them kind of hang out with new people. Because to me, that was easier to let that happen than me saying, Hey, I don’t really want to hang out with you anymore. Or, like in relationships, a lot of the times it would be them typically ending the relationship rather than me, even if I was sort of not really feeling it. Simply because I didn’t want to be the person to hurt another person. I care too much for people. And this is the time when I cared for other people more than I cared about my own well being. So I typically preferred to be recasted. I let my role in whatever relationship or friendship, whatever the role was, I, I allowed and wanted other people to take that role. Rather than me say, You know what, I need to recast. And I mean, there are times when I did recast people, or I recast an entire group of people, like I just was like, You know what? Nope, this isn’t for me, I’m gonna go and do this thing and bring in a whole new cast. But still like that, that’s my take on it is that, at least for me, it never felt good. But I definitely felt like I could handle it more than me trying to handle hurting another person’s feelings. So it did hurt. It did suck. Especially in like those relationships situations. Because nine times out of 10 I was the one being left for somebody else. Those obviously were never fun. But I think overall, there were times when I’m like, You know what, I’m glad I’m glad you found your people. I’m glad I got recasted Please continue to do your thing. I’m fine where I’m at and I’m fine with the people that I have currently in my life or with the group I’m with. So we’re good. So
Josué Cardona 49:33
I can’t relate to that level of maturity.
Lara Taylor 49:38
Neither Neither can I. Neither can I, um, there. I could go several different ways with this one. I’m gonna go the work route first, having literally been recast a few months ago and been demoted and put into and had someone else put into my role. I fucking hated it. I’m bitter and angry and and working through that and have moved on to a better situation and I am yeah, I did not like being recast especially since I felt like I could play the role well right?
Josué Cardona 50:21
Audiences loved your performance,
Lara Taylor 50:23
the audience the audience’s did love my performance, I got consistently good reviews, um, can confirm. So that’s, that’s I think when someone is recast for like no reason it feels like, I mean, you can talk about that was shows like, why was the person recast? That can also influence how you feel about it. But with relationships, I can go two different ways. There is a several relationships I had been in where I’m like, Good, you’re not my problem anymore. Someone else you’re someone else’s problem. That new person, the new me, they can they can take care of you now. However, there’s one relationship that it took me longer to get used to being recast, be because it was a situation where she said she never wanted to get married or have kids. And I was like, Okay, well, that’s not something I want to do when we broke up for many reasons. And then later, she got married and had kids. And I was like, okay, so it was it was me. It wasn’t the the decision about the kids in the marriage. So that took a while to get over. But obviously, at least as of this recording, I am very happily married and have been for almost eight years. So I don’t see any recasting in my future. But you never know what happens with life. Right? So yeah, I don’t I hope I don’t have to worry about that again. I’ve been recast enough. And I’ve done enough recasting.
Josué Cardona 52:12
40 years, yeah. Link, any thoughts on this? You don’t have to share?
Link Keller 52:19
I’m struggling a little bit. Because, like, okay, when I was a child, I’m like, we moved a lot. So I went to a lot of different schools, I got very good at making new friends. But once I moved, like, there’s only one person I ever maintains a communication with after moving and I don’t talk to that person anymore, either. So I’m having a hard time thinking like, Well, how did they feel about me, no longer being their best friends at school or whatever. I guess the when I worked for a nonprofit that worked with state parks, I worked there for eight years. Now, I worked there for a decade, I hit 10 years. So when I left, like I helped train my replacement, and that was an interesting experience. But I don’t really know. Like, there’s only one person from that, that job that I’m still in contact with. And she’s functionally my mom. So it was like, we already had an outside relationship to a work relationship. And so I don’t really know how anybody who I used to work with, like responded to me no longer being there being replaced by somebody else, though. I do know that the person who replaced me only lasted a couple of months. But I don’t know if they hired somebody else after that, or if they ended up like restructuring or what but that’s a tough one.
Josué Cardona 54:11
Yeah, I think that like. I like the idea that many times I never saw and I never, you know what that would be like, but if you saw and an ex and now they’re happy with someone else, you know, like God damn, they could have me or that could have been us. Or [Link laughs] what?
Marc Cuiriz 54:32
or you realize you were the problem?
Lara Taylor 54:35
Marc Cuiriz 54:36
Link Keller 54:37
sorry. That’s my high school and post high school relationships. If I saw them with other people, I’m like, I don’t care. That’s fine. The two people I dated most recently are getting married. and they asked me to be their officiant. They were arguing about what side I would be on. And so they were like, look, this is the compromise. Are you cool with that?
Josué Cardona 54:44
Stand in the middle,
Link Keller 55:10
stand in the middle, and so yeah, I don’t know. I feel like no, I’m, like, I’m having a hard time connecting with this topic is like, Oh, I’m weird. I’m the weirdo. Oh, man, I guess I guess, when when I was a teen and I had some mental health issues, and I moved out of my parents house, I was living with my dad, my stepmom and my stepsister. I moved out. And then fairly soon after that, my younger brother moved into their house. And so my, my sister went from being the younger sister to being the older sister. But I’ve never really asked her about that. What that was like other than, like, General of being it sucked, because my dad is a huge asshole, and she was still forced to live with him. But I guess that was, that was a fun role switcheroo. Again, it’s like, I’m like, I have two siblings. But we’ve never all lived together. At the same time. My brother is a full brother, but we’ve literally never lived together. And so it’s like, the sibling relationship is different. Because of those contexts. So I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know. This is
Josué Cardona 56:44
Link Keller 56:44
there’s a lot of introspection happening here.
Josué Cardona 56:46
Link Keller 56:46
apparently. Once I once I leave, you recast me, I don’t care. I am never going to think about it again. I guess. fuck. woof.
Lara Taylor 57:01
I mean, yeah, I when you brought up the not like, when I left my job before my last job, I didn’t. Like I didn’t care. But I left the job. I trained my replacement,
Link Keller 57:16
that is a big distinction,
Lara Taylor 57:17
I cared about the person who was replacing me. And they all just invited me to go out and have drinks with them last weekend, and I was out of town. So it’s very different. Like I was recast, but like, the connection is still there. And I still have a relationship. I’m just in a different role. And I think that’s
Link Keller 57:35
yeah, and opting in to the change versus having it thrust upon you. Yeah, pretty distinctly, you know, like we were talking about earlier is there’s a difference in recasting because, you know, an actor is unavailable, or, or what have you versus somebody died? Like, that is that is a distinction that impacts the whole thing.
Josué Cardona 58:02
Yeah, but these are, these are all examples of like, good or bad, right? Like, like, ideally, you can move on from a situation and look and look back at the, you know, whatever the role or the spot where you’re at and be like, I’m happy for this person, you know, that’s not always the case. And sometimes Yeah, you’re like, I’m gonna officiate their wedding. That’s, that sounds like a really, I mean, as long as it’s okay with you, right. I mean, I think I think that’s great for everybody involved. It sounds like a positive one. Yeah, mine are mostly not like that. Like the ones that came to mind. Like, my remember my my, when my mom remarried. Her my stepdad had had a son the same exact age as my sister. And so they ended up once they started going to school together, they were in the same exact greed. It was, it was not great, but I remember like for my sister to her she had like I had replaced like her with my stepbrother because we probably just, like started hanging out more and like that was that was quite the betrayal for her. Um, but then like I also saw I don’t know like that’s, that’s a version of it, not so much that I was recast, but just like depends on what perspective you’re looking at it from, but probably the worst one was one my or the really bad one that comes to mind is when my dad left and got married. It’s a basically he replaced me with my stepmom like I was like, we used to spend time together and we do everything and all of a sudden it was like he was gone and I couldn’t I couldn’t be next to him anymore. Literally my stepmother is something’s not okay, like she won’t even she wouldn’t even let I say won’t because it’s still she still went through it. She wouldn’t let me and my sister sitting next to my father. It was like it was that that bad? Yeah,
Lara Taylor 59:59
very odd Yeah, my my stepmom insists that we sit next to my dad at like holiday things.
Josué Cardona 1:00:06
Oh, that’s why your therapy sessions are probably different than mine
Lara Taylor 1:00:09
mine mine are very different. Yeah, I got my own things.
Marc Cuiriz 1:00:13
You know, I just realized something that I, I’ve been recast in terms of being in terms of like my dad with cuz, he has two little ones with my stepmom. And they’re both pretty much the spitting image of me and my brother. And they’re both a year and a half apart, like me and my brother were. So part of me is like, wow, we’ve been
Josué Cardona 1:00:43
recast both roles.
Marc Cuiriz 1:00:44
Yeah, not only were we both recast, but I think now he’s like, Hold on, I’m gonna I’m gonna run this season back. I’m gonna do it over again. I’m gonna see how this work. How differently this works
Link Keller 1:00:54
he did a reboot,
Marc Cuiriz 1:00:55
basically he rebooted the series. I have cameo appearances. That’s basically it
Josué Cardona 1:01:02
Marc Cuiriz 1:01:04
That’s so funny, because we always make the joke that like, the older one looks a lot like me. And he also his personality is a lot like mine. Like he has his hyper fixations. He’s a he’s a gamer. He’s all these things. And then the younger one is also a lot like my brother in like, kind of needy, very attention seeking and also likes to torment the older one, because they’re bored. So I’m like, wow, this is this is a lot that like, I’m basically part of a rebooted series right now, with older character, some older characters. But now it’s like that 90’s show where I just make cameo appearances every now and again. I’m like, here I am. And, yeah, that’s, that’s something I didn’t quite think about before.
Link Keller 1:01:57
Marc Cuiriz 1:01:58
I also, I also didn’t, I didn’t realize that technically for this show, that I’m also a recast. I know, this is something we brought up earlier. And like prior to the recording, I was like, Huh, you know, you’re right. I am a recast. I am a
Link Keller 1:02:16
Marc Cuiriz 1:02:17
That is. Yeah, like, it’s like the fourth the fourth role here. Yeah. Yeah, it’s all like I’m replacing anybody.
Link Keller 1:02:25
like, Brandon was a recast of Ali. But because there was like a whole year in between, like, you’re filling the fourth role, but like, not a recast.
Josué Cardona 1:02:41
But people have a favorite season. Maybe like, I like the season with Brandon not the one with Marc, or vice versa.
Link Keller 1:02:48
I like the one with Brandon
Josué Cardona 1:02:50
I like all the seasons. the one with Ali, not so much.
Link Keller 1:02:53
I like the one with Ali called out
Marc Cuiriz 1:02:55
Please, he was he wasn’t there for half those seasons. off doing his his big boy things.
Josué Cardona 1:03:03
This has nothing to do with the topic. But what you were saying, Marc about like how your father like, basically rebuilt the same, the same two kids again, there’s a novel and a movie called boys from Brazil. It’s a sci fi story about how the Nazis who survived World War Two created an experiment where they basically cloned Hitler and then implanted him into different families. And they tried to raise them all exactly the same way, or in similar ways to try to basically make another Hitler. So so the book is all about how there’s all of these different families who just are recreating the same upbringing of the of these kids. That’s what it reminds me of. It’s a good, it’s a good movie I’ve never seen. I’ve never read the book, though. 70s. Yeah. All right. This conversation went all directions. I think I think I think you I’m glad when you brought up those points Marc about how like, there are good, there are better ways to do it. And also, it’s not always a terrible. recasting isn’t always bad. You know, sometimes, I think, and I think you made the point. Sometimes it’s good. And also, maybe, maybe, you know, I think definitely another takeaway, Lara, at the beginning, you said, I got used to it. And I mean, ultimately, that’s, like, we have no other choice. You either get used to it or just stop watching, stop reading. Leave that relationship, whatever, you know, it’s um, you don’t have to stick around. But most of the time, it’s just you just it just you accept it and then you keep going.
Lara Taylor 1:04:49
If I didn’t recast those past relationships, I would probably be miserable. So
Josué Cardona 1:04:55
yeah, yeah. But more so you especially to be miserable. If you didn’t eventually be okay with that.
Lara Taylor 1:05:06
Josué Cardona 1:05:08
Just like accepting that.
Marc Cuiriz 1:05:10
yeah, you wouldn’t be able to watch pretty much any of the Iron Man films.
Josué Cardona 1:05:15
Link Keller 1:05:16
I think you know, like sometimes recasting it, it’s good. Sometimes it sucks. And sometimes it’s just very interesting. It’s an opportunity for creativity, speaking, not real life, but in film, The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus. That was Heath Ledger’s last movie, and he was filming it when he died. And so instead of completely recasting him, they used what he had filmed. And they added in Johnny Depp, Jude Law, and Colin Farrell, and they all played transformations of the character. And you know, whether or not the movie was good, or people enjoyed it, or it has any sort of social cachet at this point. It was a very creative way of dealing with that. And especially because the director chose people who had a relationship with Heath Ledger. So there was like, an extra extra emotional element to that. So I think that that was a really creative way of of doing a recasting. Not something you see very often.
Josué Cardona 1:06:41
I’m glad we have a lot of examples of things we can pull from, you know, somebody’s dealing with, with. I know we’ve been calling them recast, right, but they can be everything from a loss to to a breakup to moving to losing your job
Lara Taylor 1:06:57
your jobs. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 1:07:00
Changing therapists. Yeah, yeah. It’s good. All right. Thank you for joining us for this episode of GT radio, for more Geek Therapy with a geek therapy.org. There’s links in the show notes to all our community spaces where you can share what you think of recasts how many times that we say recast and this episode. Remember to geek out and do good, and we’ll be back next week
Link Keller 1:07:32
Josué Cardona 1:07:33
Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org
Transcribed by https://otter.ai and Link Keller
Characters / Media
- Jonathan Kent / Superman and Lois
- Rachel Dawes / The Dark Knight trilogy / Batman
- Evelyn / The Mummy
- Chloe / Life is Strange
- Dumbledore / Harry Potter
- The Last of Us
- Horizon: Zero Dawn
- Geralt / The Witcher
- Jesus / The Fosters
- Marnie / Halloweentown
- Steve / Joe/ Josh / Blue’s Clues
- Becky / Roseanne / The Connors
- Doctor Who
- Romeo and Juliet / Shakespeare
- Snowball 2 / the Simpsons
- That ’90s Show
- The Boys from Brazil
- The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus (2009)
Themes / Topics
* Difficult emotions
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* Making new friends
* Mental Health Services
* Blended Family
* Coming of age/Getting older
* Loss (other than death)
* New Life Event (New Rules)
Questions? Comments? Discuss this episode on the GT Forum.
Links / Social Media
Check out the GT Network: network.geektherapy.com
GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.org
GT Discord: geektherapy.com/discord
GT Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/geektherapy
Find us at www.GeekTherapy.org | @GeekTherapy | Lara: @GeekTherapist | Link: @CHICKENDINOSAUR | Josué: @JosueACardona
Ask us anything through the Question Queue and we’ll answer on the show: geektherapy.org/qq
Join the Conversation!
What is a media recasting you have strong feelings about? What about recasts within your real life?