She-Hulk: Attorney at Law

#337: The crew watched She-Hulk and loved how it centered a woman’s persepective and experience within the MCU.


Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network, here at Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Marc Cuiriz.

Marc Cuiriz 0:22

Josué Cardona 0:23
Link. Keller.

Link Keller 0:24

Josué Cardona 0:26
and Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:27

Josué Cardona 0:29
Lara, What are you talking about today?

Lara Taylor 0:31
We’re talking about she hulk

Josué Cardona 0:34
what is that? who is that?

Lara Taylor 0:36
Okay. Podcasts over, I can’t

Josué Cardona 0:38
why is that

Lara Taylor 0:43
Did you say? How was that?

Josué Cardona 0:46
I did? Yeah. also. Yep.

Lara Taylor 0:47
See, I can’t pay attention. Because I’m too obsessed with Tatiana Maslany playing She Hulk on Disney plus. And not just She Hulk She Hulk Attorney at Law. I mean,

Josué Cardona 1:00
yep, that’s a full title. I Marvel’s She Hulk Attorney at Law.

Lara Taylor 1:05
Very different from anything else. I think that Marvel’s put out on Disney plus,

Josué Cardona 1:12
yeah for a number of reasons. there’s a list

Lara Taylor 1:18
but I was very excited when they announced the show. Even more hyped when they cast Tatiana Maslany, who is a damn chameleon. i Okay, so I watched her an Orphan Black. And I was trying like, as she played Jen Walters, who is She Hulk, I was trying to figure out which clones from Orphan Black that she was acting like, and I could not, it was just a whole other character. She played like 10-15 characters on Orphan Black, and she just added another one. And wasn’t like it

Josué Cardona 1:53
I believe it was 17

Lara Taylor 1:54

  1. Yeah. Yeah, but no, I love this show for so many reasons. I think they flipped a whole lot of things. They leaned into a lot of I don’t know, they said, FU to all of the bros that hated the fact that this was a show and hate all the changes and diversity in Marvel. They played on that a lot throughout the show. And just kept leaning into it the whole time. It was wonderful. As a woman watching the show, I was like, oh, yeah, that’s something that happens. Oh, yeah. That’s something that happens. Oh, yeah. That’s something that happens

Josué Cardona 2:42
men suck, they’re the worst.

Lara Taylor 2:47
So yeah, I don’t know, what did everyone else think about the show?

Josué Cardona 2:51
But just to what you were saying, right? I think part of the what makes the show special is that she’s, she’s breaking the fourth wall constantly.

Lara Taylor 2:59
That’s one of my favorites.

Josué Cardona 3:00
Yeah. And then And then within that, she’s like, acknowledging, she’s not only acknowledging us, as like, a part of like, experiencing it as the viewer, she she talks to us, but she also recognizes, or she’s, she’s acknowledging or the show acknowledges our world, which is what you were talking about, right? Which is yeah, not only the critiques of like the fan base, but also even critiques of the company itself.

Lara Taylor 3:24
Oh, yeah.

Josué Cardona 3:24
And and the

Lara Taylor 3:26
that last episode was great

Josué Cardona 3:29
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the formulaic nature of it and all these things, and it’s um, yeah, and yeah, so I just want to emphasize that right that that’s what makes it they took the opportunity that like you said, to just address address everything from our perspective that’s that’s true about their world. And she Yeah, I think all of it Yeah.

Lara Taylor 3:51
Yeah, one of the best lines in the show. Spoilers for sure. Last episode, we’re hulk’s. That’s what we do. We smash things. Bruce smashes buildings I smash fourth walls and bad endings. And sometimes Matt Murdock and I actually really appreciate I really appreciated them bringing him in and him getting like to be goofy and not broody. He smiled a whole lot it was it was nice. I want more

Josué Cardona 4:21
he was broody, but like,

Lara Taylor 4:23
but also like,

Josué Cardona 4:24
like, like there was Yeah,

Lara Taylor 4:25
his little like walk of shame with his shoes off in his Daredevil costume was amazing.

Link Keller 4:31
I don’t think you can call it that because there was no shame. No shame.

Lara Taylor 4:36
No somebody. I think somebody else called it something I can’t remember what I will think hopefully think of it by the end of this episode, but it was perfect. I just wish I remembered it.

Josué Cardona 4:47
He’s so brooding that like basically he that’s like skipping for him. I can’t how he was walking out. Yeah, yeah.

Lara Taylor 4:55
Yeah, yeah,

Link Keller 4:56
I you know, I watched Daredevil when it first came out, and I was into it, and it was fine is whatever it is this second third season, so I was very happy to see him. in she Hulk, I was like, Oh, I missed you. I didn’t. I didn’t think that I would. But here you are. And I’m so happy that you’re here.

Josué Cardona 5:21
I know that guy.

Marc Cuiriz 5:24
So I actually never watched Daredevil when, when it was coming out. So, for me, like, I was getting hyped, because I was seeing everybody else get hype. So I was just like, it was just caught up in that, that hype train

Link Keller 5:40
second hand hype

Marc Cuiriz 5:41
of seeing Daredevil, but then kind of seeing his character in this and then knowing what the future is going to, you know, hope you know what it’s going to do with his you know, series coming back, it makes me want to be able to go back and rewatch like, watch it. So that way, I can sort of see where everyone’s kind of coming from in terms of the show. But overall, She Hulk, I also really enjoyed it. I loved a lot of the jokes that they were making, I loved all the fourth wall breaking it. It wasn’t there was a lot of it, like I think even more than Deadpool at times. But I never felt like it was like, like too much like I always felt like it was it was always purposeful in some way shape, or form, which is what I loved, like it was there. And it was constant. But it was with a purpose. Not just, oh, here’s a funny gag. And we’re just gonna do this. I mean, yeah, there was a few of those. But I just liked the

Lara Taylor 6:38
it was mostly commentary, right?

Marc Cuiriz 6:40
Exactly. Like, it was almost like, they were addressing the things that are happening in the real like out here in the real world, like everyone’s reactions to the first couple of episodes would then get addressed in like the third and fourth episodes. And then

Lara Taylor 6:54
which blows your mind because they already made the show, they knew exactly how people were gonna respond.

Marc Cuiriz 7:00
Exactly. So the fact that it was like going like it, it was following basically how everyone was going to react with it. It was insane. And I thought that was really well done. I enjoyed how this went. And I’m really excited to see how this is gonna go moving forward with with she hulk Attorney at Law and I also liked how through like most of it, they would change the title. Like when it was the episode where like, they didn’t want her to transform. So it was like just Jen. I thought that I thought all that was like

Lara Taylor 7:34
and then there was Titania, like

Marc Cuiriz 7:36
Exactly, exactly. I just thought that was all just nice little touches and it was just it was just nice to see like all this like personalization and creativity just be really just poured out into this eight episode season.

Lara Taylor 7:52
It’s interesting, because there’s a lot of there was a lot of conversation online cuz I made the mistake of reading the comments about Yeah, I know link looked at me incredulous.

Link Keller 8:02
You should know better,

Lara Taylor 8:03
I should know better. But people were complaining about like, why does she have to break the fourth wall? That should just be Deadpool’s thing. And it’s like, she doesn’t like comics. It’s it’s her thing, too. But yeah, I thought it was amazing. That like it was following exactly that line of like when something happens in an episode, and then it seems like they directly addressed how the Internet responded. And then yeah, that that’s just how they knew people respond. Also, I remembered what Matt Murdock’s stride of pride. I think that’s a good one.

Josué Cardona 8:44
Yeah. So everything you’re saying about the reactions, right? The context of that is that you have a a female character who addresses everything from a female lens. And, and unapologetically, so right, starting with in the first episode of direct contrast with with Bruce Banner’s Hulk, right? It’s like, oh, like this The angry man. It’s like, read all those comments about how Oh, like,

Lara Taylor 9:18
she’s like, I’m fine

Josué Cardona 9:19
I do this all the time. Yeah.

Lara Taylor 9:21
I’m not angry. I’m fine.

Josué Cardona 9:22
Well, no, the idea that she’s controlling her anger all the time, right because the world fucking sucks for her because she’s a woman and she has experienced all this stuff. So she’s constantly controlling her anger. And I love the how, how casually they did that in the first episode, right where you take the Incredible Hulk and you reduce him right to in a way right like I see it as like, reducing him to like Yeah, but but like it’s different for me, right? Like I can, I can handle these powers differently I can do and just having that direct contrast. Those are the type of like it was bait right for the The Internet in a way, I don’t think deliberately as bait right, but like they knew.

Link Keller 10:03
I think it was deliberate

Josué Cardona 10:05
You think so? Yeah. But like the reaction was like obvious, right? Like, even if that was a story that if that was the first episode that they wrote, There must have been like, could you imagine what how the internet’s gonna respond?

Lara Taylor 10:14
Well, and then two episodes, I think I can’t remember exactly. But it’s a couple episodes later, we get a screen of her, like, look at seeing all these tweets and comments about how she like, what is with the She Hulk and what’s this? And like, all these trashy comments that men make on the internet. And those are all things that they threw out about the show, like beforehand, not just her. I think they I think they pulled direct quotes. Maybe not using obviously username. Yeah, like, Yeah,

Josué Cardona 10:45
but I mean, I bet they have years of those two from the comic books. And and right, like, that’s not new, you know, the angry letters. I’m sure they got, like, oh, you know?

Lara Taylor 10:54
Yeah, no, now we just have access to it. 24/7 Yeah,

Josué Cardona 10:59

Lara Taylor 11:00
Yeah, I thought it was interesting. I think, I can’t remember for sure. But I think there’s only like one time that she transforms without wanting to and that was when like, basically, the sex tape get shown.

Josué Cardona 11:18
yeah yeah

Lara Taylor 11:18
And that’s the only time

Link Keller 11:19
since the very first time when she gets infected. And then at

Lara Taylor 11:23
that time, and so that means like, that is the breaking point for her. For her.

Marc Cuiriz 11:28
I think I think there’s a third time I think there’s that one time when she’s like standing outside the bar, waiting. And then those those guys are just being insistent. And then she’s just like, freak. Like she’s like, understandably just like had a very long day. And so then she transforms. And I

Link Keller 11:46
I think that one was intentional

Lara Taylor 11:47
she intentionally transformed to scare them off.

Marc Cuiriz 11:49
I don’t necessarily know just because like, the next day she wakes up and she’s like, what happened? Because she didn’t fully understand she

Lara Taylor 11:58
might have been drunk, I think as well.

Josué Cardona 12:03
She can’t get drunk as She-Hulk

Lara Taylor 12:04
but she can as Jen.

Josué Cardona 12:07
But then turns off when she goes, may she drink afterwards when she got back. But I think that the other one at the end? I think she I don’t I don’t think that she she changed again. I may be completely wrong. Just guessing but to me, I read it as like she changed because she wanted to break the screen. Right? So like she couldn’t do it as Jen she had to change. But like I want to change that she lost control. Like more that more like Bruce right where it’s like, Bruce once he lets go, that’s it. He

Marc Cuiriz 12:35
but wasn’t she already she Hulk in that moment. So it was really just like she just kind of just snapped and just let she

Lara Taylor 12:41
snapped and became Yeah, she was

Josué Cardona 12:43
oh she was?

Lara Taylor 12:43
just, but she really just yeah,

Marc Cuiriz 12:45
she was because she was attending the awards as she Hulk because that’s what

Josué Cardona 12:50
was she?

Link Keller 12:50
that’s what her job made her do.

Lara Taylor 12:52
It was like an emotional transition. Right? Yeah, like,

Josué Cardona 12:56
I was completely wrong. I don’t even Yeah, no, she’s so she was already Yeah,

Marc Cuiriz 13:00
yeah. But like, it’s like Lara said. I think it’s more of like an emotional transition where it’s

Josué Cardona 13:05
she lost control

Marc Cuiriz 13:06
Yeah, it’s more. I wouldn’t say lost it.

Lara Taylor 13:09
But she almost completely lost it.

Marc Cuiriz 13:11
Yeah. Yeah. She’s almost there but like, this is where

Lara Taylor 13:15
like, the hulk does before he becomes like smart Hulk. Right.

Josué Cardona 13:19
And she, she seemed surprised when she and everybody was like,

Link Keller 13:22

Lara Taylor 13:23
Oh, yeah. I mean, she was like bustin. Yeah.

Lara Taylor 13:26
She’s throwing things and roaring and yeah,

Marc Cuiriz 13:30
and picked up the one dude who like was taking a video.

Lara Taylor 13:35

Marc Cuiriz 13:39
I was gonna say, like, I actually was talking about this with a co worker with a couple co workers today about this. And one of them. She was saying how she was so sick and tired of she was saying how she was so sick and tired of all like these female now, oh, like, now we’re making female this like she was like, I’m tired of female thors. Now, female hulk like, they should just like, stop trying to make it like this. And I’m like, if you if you watch the show, you’d understand. Like, that’s the exact point that they’re trying to make in the show that they’re critiquing this and saying that you know, like they’re there while Disney is trying to do like these sorts of things. And yeah, there’s female Thor and everything. The whole point is that

Lara Taylor 14:27
not female Thor Mighty Thor.

Marc Cuiriz 14:30
Exactly. But this is what like my coworker was saying she called it female Thor. And so I’m was like, telling her I’m like, It’s not that it’s is it like She Hulk? If you watched it is making the commentary that like, yeah, it’s not just female Thor. It’s the Mighty Thor. There’s different. Like there’s different characteristics to it and was she hulk like, she’s making it her like at the last episode, she’s like, I’m gonna make it my own thing. I’m not Listen to this stupid algorithm. Suppose that algorithm that is designed to bla bla bla bla bla, it’s no, this is my story. And I’m going to be the one to dictate how I want it to go and things like that. And, you know, it’s one of those things where I was like, when she was talking, I was like, huh, so you’d be part of intelligencia? Yeah, I see. Good for you.

Link Keller 15:22
Ooh, I think they did a good job setting that up in the earlier episodes where she does not name herself She Hulk. Other people name her that and she, she doesn’t like it. She doesn’t want that. And it sticks. And she’s just like, Well, fine, whatever. And that happens so frequently, within comics, where people who hate women will just put something on them, and then blame them for it. This is a moral failing that you’re called she hulk is just like, I didn’t pick that name, you picked that name. And I think that that was really good setup for that. That relationship between fans and the content that they consume and how they treat women who are related to it.

Josué Cardona 16:20
yeah. Wonder so. So the show, right. One of the things that it does is it’s a Marvel show. So you’re tapping into a particular demographic, right? People who like Marvel movies, and Marvel shows. So I don’t know what the percentage is of that identifies as male in that in that demographic, but it’s a lot. But at least I’m, I’m guessing here, that a large part of that male audience doesn’t watch shows like Sex in the City, or ally, mcbeal or shows with that are starring women and show women’s lives from a female perspective. So having this show, like all of the dating stuff, right, it’s like, fuck, like some men are just terrible, right? It’s like, it’s just the worst, right? And then showing that on a, it’s like, I wonder how many people were exposed. Like, this is one thing that I like to talk about when we talk about these these big pop culture movies. Because when they address something that sure a whole bunch of other shows have done, but it’s such a big thing. And you address some kind of diversity or a different perspective, suddenly, you’re exposing other people to that. Like, I’m, we brought lots of examples of this. So I think that that, you know, I’m excited about how many, how many boys? How many men will see this and be like, Is that is that? Is that true? Like, is that? Is that what happens like, are those and and she mentioned so many? Like I don’t know how many times she says on the show? Like, this is what it’s like for women. This is what happens to women, right? Like it’s it’s a female voice explaining the experience that has never come up in shit. I can’t think of any other Marvel movies where that comes up.

Link Keller 18:10
I think it’s particularly important within MCU in that, it would be so easy to write it off as like, well, this is a fantastical superhero show. So it’s full of fantastical, unrealistic things and to have her continually be like, No, this part this is lived experiences for regular everyday, non superhero women.

Lara Taylor 18:39
She’s also like it’s a lawyer show it’s not and from the beginning tells us it’s not a superhero show. It’s a lawyer show

Link Keller 18:46
it’s really not a lawyer show either.

Lara Taylor 18:48
Yes it is.

Link Keller 18:49
It has like eight minutes total that takes place anywhere in

Lara Taylor 18:57
her lawyer office and in the courtroom. There’s probably more than eight minutes there.

Josué Cardona 19:04
I watched the tik tok like just I think COVID is still hanging around there they were talking about how bad I don’t know if this is true or not but just critiquing, like the really the worst part that what people really should really be mad about is the legal aspect of it. Like this is not like this is not how the law works

Lara Taylor 19:26
how fast the court system works and

Josué Cardona 19:29
stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah,

Lara Taylor 19:34
but that makes it all that makes it a legal. A lawyer show most lawyer shows don’t show the truth of what the legal system is like

Josué Cardona 19:40
you don’t know the what the legal system in the MCU is. We haven’t seen

Lara Taylor 19:44
we don’t know there’s a whole superhuman law division.

Josué Cardona 19:49

Lara Taylor 19:50
One thing I appreciated is that going back to like men watching the show and boys watching this show, there There’s also like a whole bunch of men who probably didn’t want to watch the show. But if they really wanted to see Daredevil coming into the MCU, they had to watch the show.

Josué Cardona 20:10
And if they wanted to see hulk and right show up, yeah, the I think I think, right, like, I can’t think of another time even something like Blackwidow which was the the first time that right? Well, no, Captain Marvel technically right. Captain Marvel did it a little bit. That’s true. No, Captain Marvel didn’t do it a little bit. No. Link disagrees. Link’s face disagrees. But I think they did it a little bit. In Captain Marvel.

Link Keller 20:38
yeah, no, I agree with that it’s just that

Josué Cardona 20:39
It was like a baby steps. Yeah, it was like a baby step. But I do feel like this did for the female perspective, kind of how Ms. Marvel did for Middle Eastern culture. And Black Panther did for black culture was like, we may have one at bat only. Let’s let’s do this. Let’s go hard. Let’s let’s not go halfway and see what happens. And I think I think it’s been again, those are the opportunities like oh, you know, sorry, we added, you know, real world things and social commentary to your superhero movie.

Lara Taylor 21:16
They did it a lot more subtly, in Captain Marvel, there was the experience of over the whole point of the show. There’s a man telling her like, you feel too much. You show too much emotion. You’re too much. And then

Josué Cardona 21:28
do you mean, Miss Marvel, or Captain Marvel

Lara Taylor 21:30
Captain Marvel

Josué Cardona 21:31
captain marvel.

Lara Taylor 21:32
So they did that more subtly. This was like breaking the fourth wall like yeah, I’m talking to you marvel fanboys like, yeah,

Link Keller 21:41
it’s like that. That was the focus. That was what was centered in this story.

Josué Cardona 21:46

Link Keller 21:46
Is is being a woman and the way that the world treats you. And that’s Captain Marvel was not.

Josué Cardona 21:57
That’s not

Link Keller 21:58
did not center that in that way. It used it as dressing for this character. But Jen’s story was, like, in the show’s plot, like was very much focused on that.

Josué Cardona 22:15
Yeah, I don’t even remember in Captain Marvel, her even talking about it being a struggle for her to be a fighter pilot. it was like

Lara Taylor 22:22
no, they didn’t cover that at all.

Josué Cardona 22:23

Lara Taylor 22:24
it was all

Josué Cardona 22:24
and marvelle was, was that also? Yeah, it was all it was pretty easy. They

Lara Taylor 22:29
it was all metaphor with her and why can’t I remember his name? Jude Law’s character?

Josué Cardona 22:36
Yeah, yeah. And I think I think at the end, right, like the fight when he’s like, I don’t think he says these words. Right. But it’s like, oh, let’s go like, hand to hand.

Lara Taylor 22:45
and she’s like no, I’m gonna use all my power. I’ve been doing it the whole time. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 22:50
Why would I be

Lara Taylor 22:51
you’ve been holding me back forever? I’m not holding back anymore.

Josué Cardona 22:53
Yeah. Yeah. To think how far how far. The MCU has come? Because I think I think Thor bumped that up a little bit more. But again, that wasn’t really the point. They only played with that as um, yeah, they only played with it a little bit.

Lara Taylor 23:09
Yeah, yeah.

Josué Cardona 23:11
Yeah. So, um, okay. Yeah. What else?

Lara Taylor 23:16
There was a decent amount of like, like, I know, a lot of people in the Geek Therapy community on Facebook group were excited when in the first episode, they talked about DBT. I feel like that was one of the more accurate portrayals we’ve had of mental health in the MCU.

Josué Cardona 23:36
That was surprising.

Link Keller 23:37
Therapist Hulk.

Marc Cuiriz 23:39
I was oh, I that made me feel so good. Because I mean, with my job, like, we’re all about DBT. So I was like, Hey, I know that thing. And like, well, I’m actually knowledgeable in this and then like, and as I was listening, I was like, huh, like, yep, yep. Like, I was like, yep, that’s totally on par. It’s not like some random mumbo jumbo like he’s like, going through it. And in being relatively, like, on par, like on point with all of that, I’m like, Man, I was like, huh, I never really thought about like if the Hulk or to do therapy DBT would be the best choice for him. Like that. But that makes a lot of sense. And you’re thinking of like, now I’m sort of thinking like, how many other heroes would benefit from DBT?

Lara Taylor 24:25
Well, there is a dialectic everywhere with superheroes that hide their identities. So

Josué Cardona 24:31
yeah, yeah, I forgot about that in the first episode.

Lara Taylor 24:34
Yeah, a lot of people were very excited. And I liked that. I also liked the episode at the abominations retreat.

Link Keller 24:43
I really liked that episode.

Lara Taylor 24:44
that group therapy It was goofy and wacky but like also some good emotional moments that do happen in groups. Like they Jen was stuck there for the day and they get give her a nice breakthrough and call her out on her shit. And that’s what groups are for.

Josué Cardona 25:04

Link Keller 25:05
Tim Roth was chef’s kiss. I was excited when he showed up and I was like, oh my god, it’s Tim Roth. And then I was like, There’s no way that he’s gonna be in any other is just the one episode. And then he showed up. I was like AHH!, oh, boy, he was great. I, I love him. That was great.

Josué Cardona 25:28
I mean, that was one of the first examples of them kind of looking back, right. Like, oh, like, I wasn’t really bad. Like, if you really think about it, like I was kind of screwed over. Like, give me a second chance saying Oh, yeah, no. Okay. Cool. Yeah, we can do that. Yeah, like, oh, yeah, no, the government manipulated me. So can I can I please get out please? I thought I thought it was fun that I think almost every episode feels different. Like it’s almost like a different type of comedy, right? It’s like, it’s like it’s not just doesn’t feel like one sitcom. I feel like every episode was a little different.

Lara Taylor 26:13
Yeah, yeah.

Josué Cardona 26:14
Because the settings were so different.

Lara Taylor 26:15
They follow different styles of different shows for sure. I remember like, they just bring Wong into everything. And it ties everything together. It’s great.

Josué Cardona 26:28
Oh, what’s her name?

Lara Taylor 26:31

Link Keller 26:33

Lara Taylor 26:33
Madisynn with two Ns and a Y but it’s not where you think! I I want a spin. I want to show a Wong and Madisynn and they’re crazy adventures in

Josué Cardona 26:45
a couple shorts at least.

Marc Cuiriz 26:47
her Just spoiling the Sopranos.

Link Keller 26:49
I would watch a YouTube series of them watching the wire

Lara Taylor 27:00
Good times. Good times.

Josué Cardona 27:02
Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. It was it was a fun show. It was a fun show. There’s a lot um, but I think I think those were like the main right we could go deeper into some of those ideas and those concepts but I mean, it was it was this right. It was like it was a female voice female experiences and then but still playing in the world in a thought in a cool in a very cool way.

Lara Taylor 27:30
And they went above and beyond on this show. Like they put Tatiana Maslany in a mocap shoot suit on a box so that she could do the twerking. Same with Megan thee stallion. Like,

Link Keller 27:43
that was very funny.

Josué Cardona 27:45
But I mean, I mean, and in terms of like, going above and beyond, I mean, we not only have the actual, like Mark Ruffalo, Hulk, we do have Tim Ross abomination from the ed norton movie. Hulk goes to space. We see we see skaar. His son, we

Lara Taylor 28:09
we get Daredevil.

Josué Cardona 28:10
we get daredevil

Lara Taylor 28:11
we get Daredevil yellow

Josué Cardona 28:13
Yeah. Yeah. the classic suit. It’s like, Oh, we got Wong like a few times. Yeah, like that was that was a lot of stuff. And of course,

Lara Taylor 28:26
and a lot of other deep cuts, like the, the like, not even B list but like the Z list, villains and

Josué Cardona 28:35
the frog, the frog guy,

Lara Taylor 28:37
the frog guy and the guy that like dies all the time. that was a great episode.

Josué Cardona 28:44
Yeah, it did have that. I forgot what the DC did a show. That was about like an insurance company in the superhero world.

Lara Taylor 28:52

Josué Cardona 28:53
powerless. I love that show. And I love I love stories that are set in the world of superheroes but of normal people. And we got to see, like with with the law division, right? It was so good. It was very, very entertaining. For sure.

Lara Taylor 29:11

Josué Cardona 29:12
Was there anything else very like either social commentary wise, that was kind of stood out.

Link Keller 29:18
I just, I mean, you know, still talking about how ultimately this is a story about the way that social media and the world treats women but I really like the arc of the show where it was sort of unclear the first couple of episodes like is Titania the main antagonist here she’s not really getting a lot of screen time

Lara Taylor 29:43
cuz in the comics she really is like

Link Keller 29:45
screen time and and like what what is going on in them, you know, sort of dropping breadcrumbs about in intelligencia Yeah. And that arc of bringing that in and realizing like, this is the The antagonist to this series and how it was, you know, at that point several episodes in several weeks into this show, it’s got a pretty high saturation point in people who are going to watch it are engaging with it, talking about it online. Seeing that kind of hate that people are spreading. And being able to just like, drop the next episode and be like, you guys know, you’re the bad guys this season. Right? It’s you. Here’s a pretty little pocket mirror to stare into your own face at.

Marc Cuiriz 30:35
We don’t know how to tell you this, but you’re the villain. you’re the problem

Lara Taylor 30:40
It makes me think of a meme about the creators of Avatar The Last Airbender, and they’re like, how many shows are they gonna have to make for children, for the people in America to realize they are the Fire Nation?

Link Keller 30:52
It’s you, you’re the Fire Nation. Yeah, yes. I thought that that was well done. Pacing wise across the episodes. Because you know, the early the earlier episode, it is more like legal focus, and you’re like, Okay, it’s gonna be like, a law show. And then it becomes more like her trying to build relationships. While while balancing, Jen versus She Hulk, you’re like, okay, so it’s more of a like an introspective, like, learning to, like, accept and love yourself kind of story. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, that’s not what I mean. We are talking about that. But that’s not what that’s not the focus.

Lara Taylor 31:31
It’s a smash the patriarchy show.

Link Keller 31:33

Marc Cuiriz 31:35
I will say, after the, the one scene where she gets like, jumped by like the four random

Lara Taylor 31:44
the Wrecking Crew,

Marc Cuiriz 31:45
Yeah. I got incredibly paranoid with almost every single male that Jen got close to, aside from Daredevil. I was like, Oh, I was like, one of those guys are going to do it. They’re going to do it. And then that what was his name? Andrew, I think it was

Link Keller 32:01

Lara Taylor 32:01
from the wedding?

Marc Cuiriz 32:02
yeah. The guy from the wedding.

Link Keller 32:04
oh, Yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 32:05
as Soon as I saw that, I was like, I had my suspicions immediately. Ah, he, he’s part of it. He’s part of it. And then the scene where he’s like, sending the text and it’s like, oh, I got it. I was like, I knew it. I knew it. But I got so paranoid, and I was like, Jen, please don’t

Lara Taylor 32:25
thought, Okay.

Link Keller 32:26
I just I want to point out that that paranoia is what women have to deal with every fucking day of like, anytime you are engaging with somebody new is like, is that a red flag? Did I just see a red flag go flying past my face? Like, are you somebody who would love to do you harm to me?

Lara Taylor 32:43
Are you going to use anything I say against me? are you going to physically intimidate me. Are you anything? Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t think that he was I thought he was the head of the whole thing. And did not see the head of the head of it coming. I was like,

Marc Cuiriz 33:01
I didn’t see that either.

Lara Taylor 33:02
I underestimated that guy.

Marc Cuiriz 33:06
Yeah that I will say.

Lara Taylor 33:06
Which would have ended up being a problem later on if he was a real person in my life.

Marc Cuiriz 33:13
Yeah, yeah. I will say I was thoroughly surprised as to who the leader was. But almost immediately, when when Josh showed up just randomly, and I was like, basically seeing how things have tracked for Jen. Throughout like the first few episodes, I was like, something something’s not adding up here. sounds a little fishy.

Lara Taylor 33:35
She just needed to meet the right. Sweet superhero lawyerly dude.

Marc Cuiriz 33:42
Someone who gets it

Josué Cardona 33:44
who gets it, you know?

Link Keller 33:46
Oh, he gets it.

Josué Cardona 33:49
he Got it.

Lara Taylor 33:51
Got smashed.

Josué Cardona 33:53
He got smashed. So within those those dating scenes, right, I think a metaphor, of course that they show is like the the guy who’s like, oh, like, She Hulk is my type but not Jen. Right? It’s like a very clear to me, right? It’s like, oh, when you have makeup and you’re made up and like, you look like something, you know? That I like it. That’s great. But I don’t. That’s what I like. I don’t like you. It’s the same person

Lara Taylor 34:20
that filter was going around tik tok right? And everybody was like, making their face into She Hulk. And I saw quite a few dudes that did it too. And they’re like, oh,

Link Keller 34:29
wait a second.

Lara Taylor 34:30
I look really good with this.

Josué Cardona 34:35
Yeah, but how messed up right? I mean, and they make her do this so much. Right? It’s like no show up as Jen. I mean, show up as she Hulk.

Lara Taylor 34:43
And then the one time she wants to show up as she Hulk. Her friend says no, no, she Hulk at this wedding. I want the focus to be on me.

Lara Taylor 34:53
Who is played by Patti? I’m forgetting her last name but she’s trans woman. She’s so funny. She’s so funny, she’s been in in a bunch of things. She cracks me up every time she shows up.

Josué Cardona 35:04
Yeah. And when she was drunk she wanted then she wanted she hulk Yeah, but I felt I felt so bad for Jen. Right? Like, I mean, it was there was a lot of self deprecating, I don’t know if it’s self deprecating even though it wasn’t self deprecating, like, the show was harsh on her, right. Like, it was like they, they criticized how she dressed. Right? And everything says like, you need to you need to get better clothes. Sometimes, like we don’t want Jen we want She Hulk. That was like a slap in the face too at the beginning when she shows up. And it’s like, no, no, like, we want to She Hulk you know, superhero power division, you know, all that. And it’s

Lara Taylor 35:48
we don’t want Jen. We want she hulk. Yeah,

Josué Cardona 35:50
yeah. So it was cool to see her like, come into I think the identity more and like it more and by the end of it. She’s like, Yeah, I’m a superhero. I’ll kick your ass in the courtroom and outside. Kind of like integration right. It was like a different type of integration as what Bruce was talking about at the beginning. He’s like, he was able to integrate his both of his selves and for her it was a very different experience.

Lara Taylor 36:14
For her I think the beginning of starting to integrate the She Hulk thing into herself like one she got the job, right. She wanted the job. So she’s like, Yes, I’m going to be she hulk but she was still reluctant. And then when Titania starts using her brand, and it’s affecting her reputation, and she doesn’t want to be associated with that she and then she’s like, Okay, fine. I am She Hulk. This this is you named me She Hulk. I am She Hulk. This is this is who I am. And she’s that’s when she really starts to embrace it.

Josué Cardona 36:45
Lara tell me about the funniest scene in the show that you texted me about

Lara Taylor 36:50
the funniest scene in the show. after credit scene when the guy comes to serve. She should serve Jen with the She Hulk, legal papers,

Josué Cardona 37:04
the specifically a cease and desist for trademark violation,

Lara Taylor 37:07
a cease and desist for trademark violation from Titania. Which her trademark was she hulk by Titania? And Jen was like, but that’s my brand. That’s that’s me. Um, yeah, I texted you about that, because I thought it was hilarious.

Josué Cardona 37:24
Don’t forget. So of course, we’re referencing the that we sent a cease and desist letter to a one Anthony Bean for violating our trademark, right. Someone it’s just like Titania right Titania wasn’t using that meets Jen gets her ass kicked by she hulk.

Lara Taylor 37:43
And then like, because it gets the trademark right under her nose

Josué Cardona 37:46
and the guy right? The guy who served in the papers, right? She she goes Jen goes like, wait no. But that’s my that’s my brand. It’s like, you should have trademarked it like that’s, you know, and even in the courtroom. They’re like, I did it first. Sorry. So it was I remember I think my reaction is he was like, oh, even like She Hulk is green too. It’s

Lara Taylor 38:05
She’s GTgreen. Yeah,

Josué Cardona 38:08
but she’s GT green. Right? It’s like it’s exactly the same story. So it was very satisfying.

Lara Taylor 38:12
The whole I laughed about that and sent you

Josué Cardona 38:15
the whole court

Lara Taylor 38:16
Before the whole next episode was the whole thing about the trademark. Yeah,

Josué Cardona 38:21
yeah. And then to have an episode where that played out. Right. And she won because it was fucking obvious. Because everyone

Lara Taylor 38:27
cuz that was her beforehand,

Josué Cardona 38:29
right? It’s like, ya know, like everyone.

Lara Taylor 38:32
The whole time it was all the men were being brought into to say that she was She Hulk. I was like, oh, that’s like our, or however many hundreds or 1000s of pages of evidence we sent

Josué Cardona 38:43
13,000 Originally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty funny.

Lara Taylor 38:49
Yeah, yeah. That that was great.

Link Keller 38:53
life imitates art imitates life.

Josué Cardona 38:59
Okay, it’s some deep cuts. This is one that like has nothing to do with anything. But I wonder if you all saw it the same way. It’s particularly you, Lara. When her mom is showing the video of her in college dancing, like that was Cosima. Right like she was just like, it was basically cosima, right?

Lara Taylor 39:20
Yes, yes. But like

Josué Cardona 39:26
fourth wall breaking sale self referential.

Lara Taylor 39:29

Josué Cardona 39:29
yeah. So how did you feel how did you all feel about first of all the penultimate episode when it’s like she’s just like, wait a minute, why isn’t this episode over? It feels like it should have been over

Lara Taylor 39:43
Oh, wait, we’re going oh,

Josué Cardona 39:45
I got an award.

Lara Taylor 39:46
is the Finale coming up? Oh, we’re actually going to the to the gala. Oh,

Josué Cardona 39:53
yeah. We’re doing this right. And then it goes on to that point where she you know, she has the the kind of loses control right because she He’s achieved. So angry. Oh, wait a minute. Is that the same? No.

Lara Taylor 40:05
That’s the episode she hooks up with Matt.

Josué Cardona 40:07
No, no. Yeah, no but then it’s is it the season finale that starts like the Bill Bixby show?

Link Keller 40:14
Yes. Yes.

Josué Cardona 40:15
The original hulk

Link Keller 40:17
loved that.

Josué Cardona 40:18
that was so good.

Lara Taylor 40:20
that was amazing. Um, they for that they had there was a stuntman. A bodybuilder that did that played her in the suit. To look like

Josué Cardona 40:34
did they get Lou Ferrigno to come back there was

Lara Taylor 40:36
no no yeah,

Josué Cardona 40:39
he was in one of the he was in one of the he’s he’s still jacked. He was in one of the Hulk movies, too. It was like a security guard. I think it was the Eric Bana one, which is actually a long time ago.

Lara Taylor 40:48

Josué Cardona 40:49
But But oh, that was so perfect. At the beginning.

Link Keller 40:52
No, I loved that

Josué Cardona 40:52
did the whole line. She was like her likes when I’m angry.

Link Keller 40:56
70s outfits with the long collars. Loved it. loved that

Josué Cardona 41:01
I know. Like I’m assuming marc, you’ve never seen this show that we’re referring to?

Marc Cuiriz 41:06
No, but I have seen all the clips. So

Josué Cardona 41:08
Gotcha. Yeah. This is one of those things where that’s for a very particular age demographic. Thank you for that.

Marc Cuiriz 41:20
Here to make you all feel old.

Josué Cardona 41:23
Yeah, perfect. That’s what you’re here for.

Marc Cuiriz 41:25
Yep. Just for you specifically.

Josué Cardona 41:27
Yep. I’m feeling it very hard. Thank you. Oh, that was so good. But yeah, so So let’s talk about that last episode, which took everything to, I think took everything that we’ve talked about to the extreme, right, like ticket to

Lara Taylor 41:41
literally broke through the fourth wall and went into our world.

Josué Cardona 41:46
Did any of you get like, was there even a second where you like what happened? Like, did the menu catch you? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Link Keller 41:56
Yeah. It paused for a second. And I was just like, oh, did I like sit on the the mouse, like, did i pause it

Josué Cardona 42:07
the funny the

Lara Taylor 42:07
remote was in my hand was like on the table like in right in front of me. Otherwise, I would have thought the cat stepped on something. But

Josué Cardona 42:14
but the genius thing is that most people would have like, it’s on Disney plus, so they just recreated the menu system from Disney plus. So I’m sure he got a lot of people reminded me of the old. I know, we talked about this the eternal darkness that it would do stuff like that. It’s like lowering the volume. And you’re like, what’s happening?

Lara Taylor 42:35
whats going on?

Josué Cardona 42:35
Yeah, yeah. So like, for a second, she broke through. She looks for like a behind the scenes show or something. And it’s just so she can jump into our world. And she does. So like, extreme fourth wall breaking, right? Like she’s walking through the set. She goes to the writers room. All of that.

Lara Taylor 42:53
She fights with security.

Josué Cardona 42:56
Oh, yeah. No, actually. And before before that, right? She, she walks into an intelligencia meeting, right? So again, it takes too ahead, everything that we’ve seen who her enemies are, and she’s, she’s with them face to face. And then it it’s, it’s she’s like,

Lara Taylor 43:12
No, this is a bad ending. No, I don’t. That’s not how I go out like this. And then then she decides to break the fourth wall. and jump into our world

Josué Cardona 43:19
Right? Right. But But what she doesn’t like is, right, she’s like, wait a minute, so he’s just jealous. I’m like, he wants what he thinks that I don’t deserve what I got. So he wants it. Right, because I got it too easy. So he wants it then he turns into a hulk. And that’s when she’s like,

Lara Taylor 43:35
He can’t be a hulk

Josué Cardona 43:35
this is stupid, yeah, she’s like, wait wait wait, first of all, this is this is stereotypical for Marvel. First of all, we’re gonna have a big fight scene at the end, which has been, of course, like, which has been, it really bothered me in wandavision. Because it felt like what what has happened? We got two witches flying in the air and to Android robots. And yeah, well, like, what? How did we get here? What happened? And of course, like, that’s, you know, the usual thing that happened. So it addresses that she’s like, Well, what we’re doing this too absolutely not. And then he the Todd, I think right turns into a hulk. And it’s like, they’re gonna have a fight. I love I love. Already. She’s like, she’s like, what is happening? The Titania just breaks through the wall. And then hulk comes down to right. It’s a she’s like, it’s the worst possible version, right? It’s like the most extreme, it’s worse than Wandavision. Right? It’s like, no, let’s get all the superhero people in here. And let’s make sure that abomination also, you know, transforms. And it was just right. And at that point, it’s like, it’s completely off the rails. Right, like, even I don’t know how you all felt, but I thought it was. I thought it was so funny, but I was also so confused. Because it didn’t even make sense. You know, at least like some of the other movies they there’s a reason why they got everything escalated to that point, but he was like, it just made it No frickin sense. And so it was, it was such a. I don’t think I can’t remember the last time I’ve experienced I’ve had a moment like that. watching something where I had no. Like, I was excited to see Bruce come in through the ceiling but at the same time I was like, But why wait a minute. What? What’s the what’s Titania doing here?

Josué Cardona 43:54
to me him showing up made more sense to me than titania?

Josué Cardona 45:27
Of course. Yeah. 100% Yeah,

Lara Taylor 45:29
like he could be coming to help.

Josué Cardona 45:30
But yeah, like he was in space and he wasn’t answering his phone and all of a sudden he drops in. Yeah. He’s always going to fight abomination and then so, so she just when she just stops it, I was like, Oh, thank you. And then she does all the other stuff, right? She she breaks the fourth wall. She goes in. And, and then she has a conversation with Kevin. That really like just hits at home. Right? She goes, she dissects the scene. Everything we just talked about. She’s like, why did this happen? Like this? Like, this is ridiculous. This is you being stereotypical. This is you doing? You know the same thing you always do? Can we do that? It’s my show. Let’s do things differently.

Lara Taylor 45:53
we’re gonna do it this way. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 46:09
Yeah. That’s when she dropped the Daredevil joke. You know that she smashes things. And Matt Murdock.

Link Keller 46:14
When are we gonna get X-Men?

Josué Cardona 46:17
Yeah, when are we getting X-Men? Yeah, right?

Lara Taylor 46:19
I can’t say anything about that. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 46:22
Oh, that was so fun. Because at that point, she’s, she’s us, right? Like, now she’s in our world. And she’s asking these questions. I think we already got the version of the trolls and the people who are angry. But at the end, like she’s us right, she doesn’t wonder we’re getting x-men like, Well, hey, you know, when is all this happening? Like, why don’t we change this? And also, she changes it in a way that’s like, that she wants, right? She’s like,

Lara Taylor 46:44
right? She’s like, it’s not dark anymore. It’s not dark anymore. It’s

Josué Cardona 46:47

Lara Taylor 46:48
daytime, we’re ending it during the daytime, and there’s no big battle. He’s just going to jail.

Josué Cardona 46:55

Link Keller 46:56
So I watched it this morning. And afterwards, I was sort of pondering on how I found it a little unsatisfying. But as I sat and thought about it, I have come around, because I think I think having it be an unrealistic conclusion to the situation. But in the way that Jen chooses, is really empowering in that this is her story. And she’s like, Yeah, you’re not gonna get the, you know, 30 minutes emotional impact of having a sex tape get leaked, and having you know, how people start treating you when that thing happens. And focusing on that, and focusing on the despair of that kind of thing, and losing your job and all this stuff, losing your ability to transform when you want to. And, you know, not focusing on any of that. We’re not doing that. That’s not what I want to do. And I’m in control here. And so it’s like, right after watching, I was like, mmm I don’t know, but as I’ve sat and like, thought about it all day, I was like, You know what, I actually really love that choice that they went, you know what, fuck your expectations I’m doing, I’m ending this how I’m going to end it. And it’s gonna make me laugh. And if you laugh, that’s fine, but I’m gonna laugh and I’m like, You know what? Respect I like that. That’s yeah, okay. Yeah.

Lara Taylor 48:24
And we get awkward family dinners with Matt Murdock.

Link Keller 48:27
Very cute.

Josué Cardona 48:28
Yeah, she, um, so So Right. When she kinda negotiates all this stuff or with Kevin or, you know, ask for all this stuff. Like, then we don’t see it play out. Right. Like we just we skipped to the right to the end. And she’s like, No, I don’t want to. I didn’t want to do this with it doesn’t have to be a battle scene.

Link Keller 48:45
Abomination, abomination is just like, You know what? That was my bad. That was my bad. And that’s how it plays out. We don’t get any more than that. It’s just like, yeah, no, I guess I did break parole. Okay. I’m Like, all right. Okay. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 49:00
I did it. You got me. And then But then Todd, right. It’s like, No, you’re arrested. You know, the cops got you. I’ll see you in court. Like, I’m gonna take care of this the way I want to take care. I could have kicked your ass, but I’m not going to.

Lara Taylor 49:12
And that’s the way she always wanted to do things was in court. And now she’s like, well, in court, but if I if it’s not in court, I’m still going to help people. Right? Yeah. Yeah, my way

Link Keller 49:23
sort of the follow up on Matt’s being like, you have a special position here where you can really help people and then when the law fails,

Lara Taylor 49:34
when the system fails.

Link Keller 49:35
You can still help them. It’s like, ooh, right. Right in the heart. There. You got it. That’s that is why she is an engaging character. Is because she rides that line.

Josué Cardona 49:49
Yep. I haven’t. My mom has watched the show yet. So I wonder how she’s gonna, you know, like, what kind of questions she’s going to have. She’s like, How did how did Daredevil just pop up? All of a sudden? isn’t He in New York? Like

Link Keller 50:04
he took an airplane.

Lara Taylor 50:05
He’s in LA. Yeah.

Link Keller 50:06
he flew

Lara Taylor 50:07
They, they asked that question. They’re like he’s in LA for that case and then

Link Keller 50:14
he’s getting money.

Josué Cardona 50:16
But he dropped out of the sky. He just appeared.

Lara Taylor 50:19
Oh, yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 50:20
I came to help

Josué Cardona 50:22
Oh, well, I’m too late. Ah, stuff was good. And it’s still I think they’d be the best. So the Daredevil show, in particular. And all of the what are they called? What’s the name of the group?

Lara Taylor 50:44

Josué Cardona 50:46
No, no.

Lara Taylor 50:48
The Why can’t I think of it?

Link Keller 50:51
That Jessica Jones Daredevil, Luke Cage,

Josué Cardona 50:55
luke cage the therapist

Marc Cuiriz 50:57
the defenders?

Josué Cardona 50:57
the defenders, Yes. Yes, that sounds right.

Link Keller 51:00
the Netflix guys. That’s not what they’re called.

Josué Cardona 51:02
Team Netflix. So all of them. They they were very good at being interconnected within themselves, but not with the broader MCU. So I think if I remember correctly, Daredevil is the only one that in the first season has. What’s the what’s the reporter in Spider Man?

Lara Taylor 51:23
J. Jonah Jameson, no

Josué Cardona 51:25
the guy who’s just a reporter who’s like, always part of the stories. I forget his name. But he appears in Daredevil. And there’s like references to like, he used to work on the Daily Bugle and stuff like that. But it’s very, that was like the only connection and after that,

Lara Taylor 51:42
and they mentioned something about the incident with the green guy, or like they talked about the New York incident or something like that there was a line

Josué Cardona 51:51
but only in the first season. Right? And it was the same. I think it was the same reporter Yeah.

Lara Taylor 51:55
Yeah. It was something about like, No, I thought somebody said something like, there’s no green guy to come get us now or save us now or something? I don’t remember.

Josué Cardona 52:04
Yeah. Yeah.

Lara Taylor 52:05
But I think it’s that same episode now.

Josué Cardona 52:08
Yeah. And so right. There wasn’t a lot of of that crossover. But this show, obviously, like, felt like it was part of the MCU. It acknowledged. I mean, I think all of this shows have done that, to a, to a good extent. It’s not just like a day in the life of this person off, you know, doing nothing, or, you know, doing something completely unrelated. But this one was deeply embedded. And it did like Kevin alluded to, they did set up the World War Hulk. They did tease that a little bit. And, and I don’t know, I think it’s kind of cool that Wong has abomination. I keep thinking what they’re going to do with all these characters. Like, it’s going to be also where do we see Jen after this? Like, can Jen appear in an Avengers movie and feel like she fits?

Lara Taylor 52:59
I have to look at the Phase Five lineup and see

Josué Cardona 53:03
well I mean. They don’t like everybody doesn’t have to be there in all these movies. But like, where do you show up again?

Lara Taylor 53:08
Yeah, I know she’s in LA and most everything is New York.

Josué Cardona 53:13
Yeah. Yeah. I guess only

Lara Taylor 53:16
Ant Man is in San Francisco. Maybe she’ll hop up to San Francisco. For mania and she’ll just randomly be in quantum mania.

Josué Cardona 53:25
Oh, if anybody’s gonna reference the giant statue in the middle of the ocean from the Eternals it’d be Jen

Link Keller 53:32
wow I completely forgot about the eternals

Josué Cardona 53:37
it’s like the most removed from from

Lara Taylor 53:40
from everything. Although

Josué Cardona 53:42
they acknowledge that nobody acknowledges them that’s that’s a thing

Lara Taylor 53:46
in the after credit scene there they have for Eternals they had blade and in the group therapy scene whatever the the vampire character can’t remember his name. He’s supposed to be blade son in the comics

Josué Cardona 54:05
who from werewolf within the guy from werewolf within? or

Lara Taylor 54:08

Josué Cardona 54:08
Oh, no, no, no, no. the guy in group Yeah,

Marc Cuiriz 54:12
I can’t remember what his name was. But I know who you’re talking about

Josué Cardona 54:16
Yeah. deep cuts deep cuts. So yeah, so like what genre Have they not done? Because they also did werewolf within which is like a black and white monster movie.

Lara Taylor 54:29
Xarus is blade son supposedly

Josué Cardona 54:31

Link Keller 54:32
I am ready for an MCU cooking show.

Marc Cuiriz 54:36

Lara Taylor 54:38
I mean, they sell a lot of Disney sells a lot of Marvel, like gingerbread. Stuff for the holidays. I’m down for a more full like, holiday Baking Championship or something.

Josué Cardona 54:54
I mean, we’re getting a Christmas special with the Guardians of the Galaxy. Right? Again, we got this Halloween special Little with the with the werewolves and all that. I don’t know if any of you saw werewolf within and, and so yeah, like we’re hitting all the genres. I don’t know we’ve done sci fi we’ve done. I don’t know we just don’t have like a does this count kinda as a rom com? Not really. Right.

Lara Taylor 55:16
Kinda sorta. We can have a guy in the end.

Link Keller 55:21
There is both romance and comedy.

Josué Cardona 55:23
Yeah, yeah. Like what genre, haven’t we? We touched? Oh, oh, this isn’t Marvel, though. But I heard that the Blue Beetle movie in DC that I think Susan Sarandon is the one that said that it’s mostly in Spanish, later on in Spanish. And so I’m like, so now we need a foreign. Like, we need a foreign Marvel movie.

Link Keller 55:46
I’m ready for a

Josué Cardona 55:47
a Korean drama set in the Marvel Universe.

Link Keller 55:50
I’m ready for a New York Times presents short Docu series about something in the MCU. could be fun

Josué Cardona 56:02
town. Yeah, yeah. No, that would be Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s it’s getting to the, to the point now where it’s like, it’s so large. Like, I wonder at what point do you do

Lara Taylor 56:13
there’s something for everyone?

Josué Cardona 56:15
There is, there is

Lara Taylor 56:17
I feel like people could enjoy this show without having watched a bunch of other Marvel stuff.

Josué Cardona 56:23
But it’s yes. But it’s also

Josué Cardona 56:25
there’s a lot of deep cuts,

Link Keller 56:26
it’s not made for completely unattached viewers, but I think because it is comedy. It’s accessible.

Josué Cardona 56:37
I have a question about this. This unattached viewer, right. Like I’m surprised by how what a large percentage I don’t know what the percentage is but a large percentage of people just like watch something. And they don’t they don’t care about like, they just they’re just there for the moment. Right? Right. You know what I’m talking about link, right? It’s like yeah, oh, it’s a sequel to something like I don’t know. I just like there was boom and action and boobs and whatever. Like I know, it was good. I had a couple jokes. I am like, of course like in in geek culture like we are not that right we need we need context and canon and fanfiction and millions of things

Lara Taylor 57:19
more backstory

Link Keller 57:20
I’m the most on attached to MCU of the four of us and I have still consumed a lot of MCU stuff so

Lara Taylor 57:30
to understand this, you literally only have to know who the Incredible Hulk is. I think on a basic level

Josué Cardona 57:38
yeah. I forgot to mention this before we’re talking about the trademark. The Avongers

Lara Taylor 57:46
really want to buy I am hoping that in the the Avengers campus at Disney they are selling Avongers merchandise I really hope

Josué Cardona 57:57
so let me get to the names of

Marc Cuiriz 57:59
that’s such a missed opportunity if they don’t

Josué Cardona 58:03
um avongers let me see list of characters because they have hilarious names. Avongers umm

Link Keller 58:20
Sorry, I just I just Googled buy avongers merch and it’s like do you mean Avengers merch but the first five pictures are the Avongers. It’s Etsy. T shirt, t shirt. Palace T Publix. They’re all like, No, we know we know what the people want. They want the avongers

Marc Cuiriz 58:42
they want the avongers

Josué Cardona 58:44
Okay, let me see. I think I think found

Link Keller 58:46
iron dude

Josué Cardona 58:48
right. Yeah, yeah.

Link Keller 58:50

Josué Cardona 58:51
It’s thur. Right. I can’t find a full list. Do you see the rest? Anyway, it’s it’s so funny. I can’t I can’t find it. But yes, I know. I think iron dude it is actually a real, right. That’s one. Yes? No?

Link Keller 59:15
iron dude is one.

Josué Cardona 59:17
Yeah. Because I don’t think they say them all in the episode. But then I saw a video afterwards where they talked about it. like Captain Patriot I can’t find it. I get nervous when I started Googling stuff and I can’t see him. Anyway, it’s the avongers, amazing. So yeah, so I think like with all Marvel shows, it’s a lot more fun if you’re if you’re able to understand all the references, but again, just like it’s weird that it’s still weird to me that some people like they don’t care. They just want to. They enjoy the movie without knowing any context. I wish I wish my life was that simple. I can’t I can’t

Marc Cuiriz 1:00:04
I yeah, that I don’t think I could ever do something like that. Like I did that with Assassin’s Creed. Cuz I started with two. And I couldn’t

Josué Cardona 1:00:14
you had you course corrected hard on that one.

Link Keller 1:00:17
that barely counts, two! Two!!

Marc Cuiriz 1:00:17
I was like, Well I mean back? Yes. But still like I didn’t know that I was like, Oh, this is a sequel. That means there’s a first one. And to me I couldn’t just be like, okay, it was a good game. All right, leave it at that move on, go back to playing Call of Duty. So then it was like and then and then and no, I need to know, what was the first game, I need to find that and I scoured the like multiple, like family videos to find it. Multiple Walmart’s multiple targets until I finally found it in a little corner of this random target that wasn’t even anywhere close to my hometown. And I just thought it was like $20 because it was on sale. And I was like, I need this now. And then I plucked it. And now here I am completely devulged into Assassin’s Creed lore, because I just can’t I can’t I once I find something and it’s like, Oh, I like this. And then I realized, wait a minute. There’s more?

Josué Cardona 1:01:17
You bought the encyclopedia. You bought the comic books? I bought two novels. Yeah. Cuz they updated it. I know. Exactly. I

Marc Cuiriz 1:01:23
have the most updated one. Yep. And I have the art book.

Josué Cardona 1:01:26
Yep. Yep. That’s like, Yeah, I did that with Doctor Who? I watched like a random episode. Because I was watching Torchwood. And then there was like, oh, there’s an episode of Doctor Who that sets up Torchwood. That’s cool.

Link Keller 1:01:40
better check that out Uh Oh!

Josué Cardona 1:01:45
there’s 24 episodes before this one. Okay. I’ll see them. Now. Here we are. Okay, well, any anything else about? She Hulk that we haven’t covered?

Link Keller 1:01:56
I just want to say that the credit animation I think is so beautiful. I loved every second of that.

Lara Taylor 1:02:05
And extra storytelling as well.

Link Keller 1:02:08
Yes. Yeah. I whoever illustrated and animated that it was so good. It was such a treat for my eyes.

Lara Taylor 1:02:19
Mm hmm. Yeah. meant to look like court reporting like courtroom artist

Link Keller 1:02:24
is better than any actual real life courtroom artist.

Lara Taylor 1:02:28
Absolutely, absolutely. But meant to mimic that. Yeah. Yeah, that was fun

Josué Cardona 1:02:36
Yep. So Marc, closing thoughts.

Marc Cuiriz 1:02:51
You know, I think we kind of touched on everything that I wanted to talk about when it comes to She hulk. I’m excited to see what they’ve got through season two. And I hope it comes faster than Season Two for Loki has.

Lara Taylor 1:03:05
Nothing moves fast with Marvel,

Marc Cuiriz 1:03:07
I know.

Josué Cardona 1:03:09
Yeah, yeah.

Link Keller 1:03:11
oh man can you imagine Jen and Loki hanging out because Oh,

Marc Cuiriz 1:03:18
I could just see them going head to head in a bake off.

Lara Taylor 1:03:22
That’s the next. That’s the next thing.

Josué Cardona 1:03:27
But maybe, maybe we’ll see her maybe we’ll see Jen again in the 20 episode. fourth season of Daredevil that has been announced.

Link Keller 1:03:38
I Hope that they let Daredevil have a just a tiny amount of fun

Josué Cardona 1:03:49
scenes during the day

Link Keller 1:03:50
because that last season was just slog. So let let Matt have a good time. He’s cute. He’s funny. He’s sweet. Like he deserves good things.

Josué Cardona 1:04:04
I think it’s like a lot of comic books, right? Where it’s like, oh, this this writer wrote like a seminal arc for this character. And some of the best Daredevil arcs are dark, just so dark.

Lara Taylor 1:04:17
But then there’s plenty of other books that he’s in where it’s light. and funny

Josué Cardona 1:04:21
Lighter. Yeah.

Lara Taylor 1:04:23
yeah lighter

Josué Cardona 1:04:24
Yeah, I don’t think Yeah, I think I think yeah, I don’t know if you’ll get any lighter than then we saw him and she hulk

Lara Taylor 1:04:31
that we saw here.

Josué Cardona 1:04:31
Yeah, yeah. But there was always been like some comedy. But that was the whole thing with the defenders and all those shows were more serious, more serious tone

Link Keller 1:04:42

Josué Cardona 1:04:43
Yeah. Lara, closing thoughts.

Lara Taylor 1:04:47
smash the patriarchy and don’t be a Titania.

Josué Cardona 1:04:53
Agreed agreed. My closing thoughts are that the avongers are Hulk Thur. Iron person and hawk guy get doesn’t matter. And also, again, this is I think this is we don’t have a lot of media in this particular like, again in the MCU. You got an MCU fan, want to talk about a female perspective and the way that women are mistreated and you need like a way to to start that conversation. She hulk she hulk has got it for you, Kevin Kevin served up she hulk for you. Let us know who is your favorite avonger and where you want to see Jen next. In one of our community spaces, you can find links to all of those in the show notes. Thank you for joining us on this on this conversation. Visit geek therapy.org For more Geek Therapy, remember to geek out and do good. Well, we’ll see you next week.

Link Keller 1:05:59

Josué Cardona 1:06:00
Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Characters / Media
  • She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
  • Orphan Black
  • Daredevil (Netflix series)
  • Deadpool
  • She-Hulk (comic series)
  • Bruce Banner / The Incredible Hulk
  • The Mighty Thor
  • Sex in the City
  • Ally McBeal
  • Black Widow
  • Captain Marvel
  • Ms. Marvel
  • Wong / Dr. Strange
  • The Abomination / The Incredible Hulk
  • Powerless (TV series)
  • Avatar the Last Airbender (TV series)
  • Eternal Darkness (game)
  • Wandavision (TV series)
  • The Defenders (Netflix series)
  • The Eternals
  • Werewolf Within
  • Assassin’s Creed 2
  • Doctor Who
  • Torchwood
Themes / Topics

Conversation Topics:

* DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy)
* Betrayal
* Change
* Consequences
* Difficult emotions
* Family
* Fear
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* Power struggle
* Problem Solving
* Resilience
* Strong female role models
* Standing up for oneself
* Misogyny

Relatable Experience:

* Clarity/Understanding
* Fighting
* New Life Event (New Rules)
* Trauma
* Existing as a woman

Questions? Comments? Discuss this episode on the GT Forum.

Links / Social Media

Check out the GT Network: network.geektherapy.com

GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.org

GT Discord: geektherapy.com/discord

GT Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/geektherapy

Find us at www.GeekTherapy.org | @GeekTherapy | Lara: @GeekTherapist | Link: @CHICKENDINOSAUR | Josué: @JosueACardona

Ask us anything through the Question Queue and we’ll answer on the show: geektherapy.org/qq

Join the Conversation!

Who is your favorite Avonger?

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