Table Top RPG? Twitch Therapy RPG!

Josué Cardona 0:12
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by link Keller.

Link Keller 0:22
hiiiiii

Josué Cardona 0:23
Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:24
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:26
and special guests first time on. GT radio Kayla Devorak.

Kayla Devorak 0:32
Hello.

Josué Cardona 0:33
Devorak? Devorak? Devorak,

Kayla Devorak 0:36
Devorak

Josué Cardona 0:36
Devorak

Kayla Devorak 0:37
Yeah. Don’t say Devorak. That’s incorrect.

Josué Cardona 0:41
Thank you. Thank you for Yeah,

Lara Taylor 0:43
Josué is very specific, about pronouncing,

Kayla Devorak 0:45
thank you for asking

Josué Cardona 0:45
I want to make sure. I want to make sure it’s right. It’s important to me. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome. The reason why you’re here is because Lara, you know, we take turns picking a topic. And every week, you know, one of us goes, and we really bring up who’s gonna go? And I’ve been asking Lara, and she kept saying, like, oh, I don’t know, I don’t have an idea because I’ve been obsessed with something. And it gets, and the first week, okay, it’s fine. We can skip you. And then the second time, she said, I was like, Whoa, that’s your topic that I think that’s it. I think we

Lara Taylor 1:23
the first time was something else. But then it was my second time. And I was like, all that’s on my brain is buying this house. stuff at work. And this Friday night CASTT game we’ve been playing.

Josué Cardona 1:40
Please tell us more about that.

Lara Taylor 1:42
I got to explain everything?

Josué Cardona 1:45
Start with explaining CASTT, and then and then and then explain what’s happening on CASTT.

Lara Taylor 1:50
Here, Kayla, you want to explain?

Kayla Devorak 1:51
Hi, yeah, I can explain CASTT a CASTT it stands for community of applied spiritual, and therapeutic tabletop gamers. We are a Discord server of helping professionals who like to use tabletop role playing games, and board games in an applied manner. We also stream doing those things.

Lara Taylor 2:22
Yeah, more and more shows being added.

Kayla Devorak 2:25
We have Friday night casts, which is every Friday night at 9:30pm. Eastern on Twitch, I always forget the timezone transitions. And then we have every other Sunday is gays of our lives, which is an all queer cast playing queer games and talking about being queer. That’s every other Sunday. And then newly started is the tabletop transformations, which is the fourth Thursday of every month where Menachem and Tanya talk about how tabletop games can help us in our spiritual journeys. We have another show coming, but I can’t talk about that one yet. No.

Link Keller 3:11
For our listeners, you can check that out at Twitch tv slash CASTT.

Lara Taylor 3:17
With two Ts underscore gamers,

Kayla Devorak 3:20
yes, thank you.

Lara Taylor 3:21
Or on YouTube. were CASTT with two T’s gamers no underscore.

Kayla Devorak 3:30
That’s correct.

Lara Taylor 3:31
Yeah, yeah. And

Josué Cardona 3:32
that Discord server, how could we possibly find it or join? If we were so interested.

Kayla Devorak 3:41
We’re working on getting a submission form built out in our it’ll be in our link tree which you can access in our about page on Twitch.

Josué Cardona 3:53
Okay, we’ll put in the show notes. Yeah, okay. All right. So that’s CASTT. And then so so. So you’ve been playing a game.

Lara Taylor 4:03
We’ve been playing a game kids on brooms by if I had thing out

Kayla Devorak 4:10
Doug Levandowski.

Josué Cardona 4:13
On rolling for change. We’ve,

Lara Taylor 4:15
you’ve talked about kids on brooms and kids on bike.

Kayla Devorak 4:18
Yep, yep.

Josué Cardona 4:19
Yep. And they’ve played a campaign on there as well. And Menachem, which you mentioned before, has also been on rolling for change.

Lara Taylor 4:29
So kids on brooms, I started playing. The group that plays on Fridays had been playing games together since before I joined and then kids on brooms was the first game I played with them. Then we decided to do a bunch of other games and then stream and we streamed a bunch of other games and decided we really wanted to come back to the characters that we played in kids on brooms, and it’s been a very interesting, enlightening experience. I think it’s very interesting that we have a queer show. And yet most of like, what we’re going to talk about is like the queer journey in this relationship that our characters have. But this game is

Kayla Devorak 5:16
super gay

Lara Taylor 5:17
it is so gay. It’s so gay and so good. Um,

Link Keller 5:23
before you start describing your characters, could you give us a little quick synopsis of kids on brooms and how it sort of works and in the play style and everything?

Lara Taylor 5:37
Um, kids on brooms is like a rules light kind of game compared to d&d or any of that you do have dice. You have stats?

Link Keller 5:47
Do you use d 20 or D sixes?

Lara Taylor 5:50
a whole bunch of different die. Mm hmm.

Link Keller 5:54
I love that an excuse to use all of my clackies.

Lara Taylor 5:57
Exactly. So like you can have a D 20, in brawn and like, be able to beat things up, right? Or you can have a D 4 in brains and not make some good decisions. There’s each, like, we talked about playbooks. There’s tropes instead of classes or whatever. So in this one, it’s kids on broom, so it’s all I don’t want to say Harry Potter base, but Harry Potter magicians, that kind of stuff.

Link Keller 6:30
Hogwarts adjacent

Kayla Devorak 6:31
That’s the best way to explain it, Yeah,

Lara Taylor 6:32
yeah. Um, so you’ve got like, the firstborn caster. That’s my character. The haughty descendant that’s Kayla’s character. You’ve got unlikely ally. I’m trying to remember some of the Oh, teacher’s pet. There’s a whole bunch of good ones. Yeah. Yeah, a whole bunch of tropes, you answer questions based on that. There’s a lot of relationship building in the game. We asked each other relationship questions at the beginning of the game, each time we play. or not each time you play, each season, except sessions.

Kayla Devorak 7:20
During the character creation and world building. There are relationship questions that will ask you you roll a die, you roll the D 20. And whatever number you get is the question you ask. And you can you can ask a question about a character relationship that is negative, or positive, or you don’t know the person.

Lara Taylor 7:42
And then we built the world together in that we have a GM it is a GM game. Dustin is wonderful and created this world for us. But we get to have input too. And then we build in rumors that may be true or not help give him ideas on where to go and what we’re interested in in the world. This particular version, our first time playing, we were students at a high school in Yale, or not in Yale to in Salem, where we were dealing with descendants of the original Salem witches. And then we end up our second time playing, which is our first time streaming. We’re at Yale,

Kayla Devorak 8:33
we went to yale

Lara Taylor 8:34
we went to Yale, where the secret societies at Yale are magical societies. So that’s kind of the gist of kids on brooms. It’s a fun game.

Kayla Devorak 8:48
It’s a lot of fun.

Lara Taylor 8:49
And I think it’s the first game I’ve played outside of d&d or World of Darkness games. So and since now I’ve played other games but that was interesting

Kayla Devorak 9:05
she’s expanded her horizons since then,

Link Keller 9:09
the kids on brooms is a gateway tabletop game

Lara Taylor 9:12
it is a gateway tabletop game. And then I’ve been along for the ride and played some awesome things. But I think how this applies to why is my insulin pump going off in the middle of talking about things? Um,

Josué Cardona 9:33
diabetes Podcast coming soon.

Lara Taylor 9:34
Diabetes Podcast coming soon, especially um turning red is coming out soon. This game has been eye opening for me personally, in my life and journey and being able to heal some past issues in my life that I I don’t know it’s been not just the the relationship trauma that we have been working on in this game with our characters, but like my confidence my ability to see myself in a different light this game has been wonderful. But that’s that’s kind of why I wanted to talk about it. Although it was always idea to bring Kayla on and make us talk about the awkwardness in this game.

Josué Cardona 10:34
No, I brought Kayla on because it sounds like the best way to understand ourselves might be through the media we care about. And this sounds like a great example for everything you just said. So please tell us tell us tell us about those moments how they started like what what is been so meaningful. Please bear your souls as much as you are comfortable.

Link Keller 10:58
Yeah, I feel like you should tell us about your characters first

Kayla Devorak 11:02
Well, it started. It started with Dustin rolling a relationship question for my character. Lexa I believe is how it’s how this started. Because our characters in the initial game we played

Lara Taylor 11:18
not they didn’t know Riley, my character Riley likes pretty much everybody. And it’s kind of open to

Kayla Devorak 11:27
who is Riley?

Lara Taylor 11:28
Yeah. Who is Riley Riley is the firstborn caster. Riley has little experience in the world of magic or used to and was looking kind of timid, wanted input from other people unsure of herself by the end of this first year at Yale that we’ve done is a little more sure of herself. It’s been an interesting growth arc that we’re going to get to but yeah, she kind of a kind of lost in the world. At the beginning when we played basically, we have built in the beginning especially it was a it was totally a Harry Malfoy, Like, vibe. Except less confident.

Link Keller 12:29
I’m pretty sure I read that fanfiction. I’m so excited.

Lara Taylor 12:32
You could go watch it right now.

Kayla Devorak 12:36
You could you could.

Lara Taylor 12:40
So who’s Lexa then?

Kayla Devorak 12:41
Oh, ah, who is Lexa? Lexa is a descendant of the Salem witches and is torn between what her family wants, who her family is so Lexa’s rich and full of herself to a degree and guarded but also stuck in this position of having to follow what the family wants because it’s what they think is best for the coven. And they also believe that I mean, they’re basically pure blood-ists and, and torn between that and being her own person. And I had initially kind of started that when we were playing the first time. And then Dustin rolled that dice that asked that question and it was like very, I think it literally was like, it was either like the secret question or the love question. I think it was something like when did you know your feelings for this person had changed?

Lara Taylor 14:07
I think I think that’s right. And you brought up well, what if? What if she likes Riley? and I was like I’m up for that. Let’s do that. That’s fine. Yeah.

Kayla Devorak 14:18
So that’s how it started.

Lara Taylor 14:22
And and now we’re completely obsessed,

Kayla Devorak 14:24
completely obsessed. But the problem with with that the problem I had with the having feeling Lexa having feelings for Riley and moving a relationship forward was that Lexa did a thing. In initial game we played kids I’m going to call it kids on brooms. Session zero. She did a thing that was not very good. There was Riley there was like no consent involved and it was like a complete one off I had accidentally basically wrote in that a vampire unintentionally and then it was a thing but then it got brought up in our in our yale-capades game. And I was

Lara Taylor 15:15
and it wasn’t supposed to be some deep thing because the original kids on brooms that we were playing was supposed to be a one shot that turned into like months of playing. And it was like we didn’t even think about it until I got brought into this this season of kids on brooms. Basically, Lexa had another character Calvin take Riley’s blood, unknowingly to see if why she had magic powers because she shouldn’t have had magic powers because, or at least this strong powers because she was a firstborn caster. And then, Calvin lied to Riley about where the scar came from, and said it was the headmaster of the school. That was a vampire.

Kayla Devorak 16:18
Because Calvin bit Riley in raccoon form

Lara Taylor 16:22
because he’s a raccoon.

Kayla Devorak 16:23
raccoon form

Lara Taylor 16:24
were-raccoon. It gets complicated, but that’s the gist of it

Kayla Devorak 16:27
that is the gist of it.

Lara Taylor 16:29
Not only was Riley humiliated by being lied to, but also in lying convincingly to thinking that she was telling the truth to other students to watch out for this headmaster who is a vampire.

Kayla Devorak 16:44
Who is not a vampire.

Lara Taylor 16:46
No, who’s not a vampire so we had to figure out a way to address all of this in this like relationship that was budding in the in in our season. And that was awkward conversation in the game.

Kayla Devorak 17:12
I think I it was painful.

Lara Taylor 17:15
Well, you had to do most of the talking

Kayla Devorak 17:17
it was painful. Yeah, it was I and Dustin our GM did a really great job of working Lexa up to the point so Lexa is a legacy a yale legacy because of course and is also a legacy of Skull and Bones. And so Lexa joined Skull and Bones started having divination dreams. And Dustin started putting in into the dreams interactions with Riley that were like Riley saying like you have to tell me the truth at some point and like, leading us ultimately into this place of like something is gonna have to happen here. And it did after like eleven episodes

Lara Taylor 18:14
eleven episodes

Kayla Devorak 18:15
We dragged it out a long time.

Lara Taylor 18:19
It was interesting because you were gone for a couple weeks, and that ended up pushing the story further.

Kayla Devorak 18:31
Yeah, I think because something to the story. Something

Lara Taylor 18:35
Riley was so in that piece. We got attacked by not the big bad, but the big bad minions and the minion like steals. It’s called a leech. It steals people’s memories. And right, Riley was worried that Lexa was going to forget about this building relationship about

Kayla Devorak 19:05
the date,

Lara Taylor 19:06
the date that they were supposed to have about everything. And so Kayla being gone led me to being like, having Riley a little more frantic, and then Lexa wakes up and we have this big conversation about consent. And, like, holding and being accountable for what she’s done. Because we finally after 11 episodes, they kiss and then it’s like, wait, I think I’m falling in love with you. But I owe you an apology.

Kayla Devorak 19:50
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 19:52
And for me, it was interesting. Playing that scene out with you because like everybody that we play with was waiting for that moment. They were waiting for a happy ending. And that was not happening because we wanted to make sure that we didn’t just gloss over this, this horrible thing that happened.

Kayla Devorak 20:15
And then because Lexa was honest, and Calvin had to be honest, and then it It turned into like, oh, you also took Eliza’s blood. And Calvin and Eliza dating and it was it was a whole, it was a whole thing.

Lara Taylor 20:34
And it was interesting. Playing that scene out, I was, it would have been different. I think if we hadn’t had this other. If you go and watch the playthrough I’m trying to figure out ways because if, if I have someone that I love, woke up from basically a coma. Like, I would be like, oh, I want to give you a big kiss. Right? Didn’t happen because we were about to have a conversation about consent. So I had to be like, Do you even remember who I am? And that whole thing?

Link Keller 21:15
If I kissed you right now, would it be weird?

Lara Taylor 21:19
Exactly.

Link Keller 21:20
Just a check in.

Kayla Devorak 21:20
Riley did Kiss Lexa. And it wasn’t weird. But it was,

Lara Taylor 21:24
but it was. But it was like a there was a whole conversation before it. Because of this idea. It wouldn’t have felt right to do what they do in the movies. Because Oh, yeah, you might not know who I am. I don’t know what you remember. So that was interesting.

Kayla Devorak 21:45
That was interesting. Watching that those two episodes, I was gone. It was I was like, dreading doing it. Because I was like, oh my god, Lara really like has Riley leaning into this, like Riley did not leave Lexa’s bed for the two episodes. Like she stayed next to Lexa. And like, was the one that took like, got her away and all of this. And so I watched those two episodes. I was like, Oh, God, I this is gonna be painful, like this is gonna suck.

Lara Taylor 22:22
And then there was a we debrief after every game session, we have a checkout and ask questions. And I don’t even remember exactly what I said. But there was a point where I was reflecting on past relationships I’ve been in that unconsensual things have happened, really messed up, things have happened. And it’s been healing to play through this in a different way. Like, I reacted differently back in the day, then my characters reacting. And I know that Kayla is playing a character who genuinely wants to be different, and genuinely wants. Like, there’s accountability. Right, for what happened. So it’s been it’s been eye opening. My therapist has heard a lot about it.

Kayla Devorak 23:25
I’ve talked to my I’ve talked to both of my therapists about it. Yeah, it’s, uh, yeah, it. And Lara and I have done a lot of backend processing and talking about the experience, and I don’t really neither one of us had, like, we’re not like, we were like, we’re gonna go into this and these characters are gonna do this thing for us. It was like, oh, have we found ourselves in like a situation that could be reflective of similar relationship situations we’ve been in in the past.

Lara Taylor 24:07
And now we’re making playlists and drawing art and

Kayla Devorak 24:11
And I

Lara Taylor 24:12
might be writing a book right?

Kayla Devorak 24:15
I mean, I’m planning like an offseason like Lexa’s is gonna write letters to Riley it’s a whole thing. Because as the

Lara Taylor 24:26
Kayla’s getting a tattoo,

Kayla Devorak 24:28
well, yes, I’m just adding it to my tattoos that I currently have that it just fits perfectly. So I’ve added I’ve asked for a slight adjustment. Yeah, it’s i It’s interesting

Lara Taylor 24:48
the game is magic.

Kayla Devorak 24:49
Really this game in particular. It’s interesting because I What have not been like The Alexa in a situation. And so it’s I’ve been able to, like, reflect on not necessarily like being empathetic of like someone who’s done harm, but being able to like experience something that feels like a similar type of harm. And be able to like, position it differently has has allowed me to, like hold that particular trauma that I have in a much different way, which allowed me to really like, process some things in a less painful way. Yeah, and so that’s been very cool.

Link Keller 25:47
That is, the magic of role playing to me is that it allows you to, to, of course, play characters that are not like you at all. And yet still find ways to relate that back to yourself and come to better understand yourself and the way that you’ve interacted with other people and the things that they’ve done. And being able to reframe it in such a way because you you’re playing you’re you’re playing a fun, fun little game. And so it’s like the stakes are low. Like I can sit down and really, like chew on this without having an emotional meltdown. Maybe a little emotional meltdown. But in a fun way.

Lara Taylor 26:27
About that, like Kayla is playing someone very different from herself. I’m fucking Riley

Kayla Devorak 26:34
Yeah. Yeah.You are. I mean, even even how like Riley dresses? Yeah.

Lara Taylor 26:40
Um, I Oh, I haven’t shown you the picture of my green hair that, that Riley has basically like when I created this character, like, it was the first time I was making a character like outside of d&d, or vampire and like, I was like, I don’t know what to do. It’s a one shot, I’m just gonna throw myself there. It’s fine. And that has been a lot. And also, it’s like, I’m doing things as we play to differentiate myself. But there’s a lot of what we call bleed in Playing i, where the characters bleeding into my life. I’m bleeding into the character. It’s a lot.

Link Keller 27:26
I love that. Oh, it’s just a one shot. I’ll just put myself in the game. It’s me. This big mirror is reflecting back at me.

Kayla Devorak 27:35
Oh, so it’s so cool. Because like we’ve it’ll be a year in October since Lara has been playing with us. And we’ve been playing since March of 2020. So

Lara Taylor 27:50
it’s actually No, it’ll be two years.

Kayla Devorak 27:52
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 27:53
In October.

Kayla Devorak 27:53
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 27:54
Yeah.

Link Keller 27:54
Oh. So wild… time!

Kayla Devorak 27:57
So it’s, it’s because you talk about? Yeah, I created Riley. And I just, I just made me. But you’ve now played like so many other games. And you talked about, like, your confidence in Riley’s confidence. And I think that’s reflected in the character choices that you make. Right, like Ollie is not you?

Lara Taylor 28:21
Right? No, Ollie is my wife.

Kayla Devorak 28:23
we wheels is not you

Lara Taylor 28:26
wheels is not me, no.

Kayla Devorak 28:27
So I I think yeah, it’s a nice reflective thing.

Lara Taylor 28:33
It was, yeah. Like it was a throwaway. I was like, okay, and there was a point where we, like we in one of our debriefs or on a panel or something we’re talking about what’s our favorite character? And it was at that time, it was my Star Wars character, Nuxo. Riley is my favorite now. And that has a whole other deep meaning. When I start thinking about how Riley is me, and how I used to feel about myself, so

Kayla Devorak 29:06
yeah, look at that. I mean, we have their whole entire lives planned up. Okay,

Lara Taylor 29:12
we do we have like, Okay, so after every time we end the game, we do kind of an epilogue, see where they’re at. And like, a month or six months or whatever. We have the final epilogue already planned. Yeah.

Kayla Devorak 29:25
Because they will get a happy ending. Because I do not play a game where my gay characters do not get a happy ending.

Lara Taylor 29:31
There’s got to be plenty of angst, plenty of angst, but they get the happy ending.

Kayla Devorak 29:35
And that’s another thing that we’ve talked about is like having control over the gay angst. Like I grew up in rural America, where it was, it just was gay angst just existed all the time constantly and I didn’t get to shut it off ever. And now with lexa and Riley, and we talked so much about like, how do you want how Do you want the scene to go? Like, how painful Do you want it? And then we went and did it, knowing we had control over the whole situation.

Lara Taylor 30:10
Mm hmm. And a lot of conversation about like, I don’t want, I don’t want Riley to end like, I want her to be upset. Right? Like, she gets to be upset, but I don’t want her to be cynical, or

Link Keller 30:27
cruel,

Lara Taylor 30:28
hating life or cold, right. And so I’m walking a fine line now, as we’re about to go into doing our epilogues in a few days of what is going to happen. And I Kayla and I have talked about the plan. And I think I’m in a good spot where we’re gonna leave it with a little bit of a open door. Because yeah, we’re not like everybody was expecting a date. And

Kayla Devorak 30:56
I know, again, you’ll have to wait for season two for the date, because Lexa will win Riley back in season two. That’s the plan. Exactly. So much more broom riding. Which one of our players literally thought was a euphemism? And we’re like, no, no. Like, we are broom riding

Link Keller 31:19
it can be euphemism. But we’re not using it that way. Right now.

Kayla Devorak 31:23
Maybe one maybe one day, maybe one day.

Josué Cardona 31:26
season three

Kayla Devorak 31:29
You mentioned season three, we are playing all four years of yale.

Lara Taylor 31:34
We are

Kayla Devorak 31:35
so we are will be going back to these characters. next September.

Lara Taylor 31:41
all from a one shot.

Josué Cardona 31:42
Yeah, yeah. So I hear you saying that now. We’re planning it out. I, I don’t want her to be cruel. I want her to be like this, you know, go through this. But like, you’re, you’re in it? What? When did the decision happen? Like, when did you see that? Oh, we like just became, like, I have a choice. I can I can go down this one path. That is that will. I’m going to deal with some stuff, I’m going to process some, some real stuff. Versus like, I don’t want to do that I’m going to do something completely different. Because I don’t I don’t want to go through that.

Lara Taylor 32:23
We were on a path. And then I mentioned something that came up for me in a session. And then Kayla had a realization. And then we process that together

Josué Cardona 32:34
in a session in a in a play session, or

Lara Taylor 32:37
together just us chatting on it. And it’s stuff that like most of the other players in our game aren’t gonna get. I like gays of our lives. We do. It’s all queer people playing games together. I do appreciate. The the Pete group we have now is solid. And I enjoy showing them what it’s like there is so much like they’re witnessing basically my teenage years. And my college years. Well, mostly my college years. The whole experience of like, this is my friend. Should it be really? Is this a relationship? Should it be more than friends? I don’t know. Like, that’s something we’ve talked about, like,

Kayla Devorak 33:32
so awkward.

Lara Taylor 33:34
And that’s why the conversations that we’ve had is so awkward. In the game.

Josué Cardona 33:41
is This also our life is Strange podcast. Isn’t that Yes.

Lara Taylor 33:45
we can also include this in the My life is strange cast. Yeah.

Kayla Devorak 33:50
I didn’t know it was happening until Lara literally said in the debrief. Yeah. Like I’ve been in this situation before and I was like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah. The only thing that I was determined to make happen was Lexa had to hold herself accountable. That was the only thing that mattered to me. And so that was intentional. The own the owning of the harm and the the assurance and the statement of repairing the harm that Lexa made in Episode 11 was extremely important to me because those are some of my top values and so I was not going to feel great about putting Lex and Riley and Riley in that situation where she was never going to get to know about this, this harm that happened.

Lara Taylor 34:57
Right and being able to sit with like I have not been in the Lexa position. I’ve been always the Reilly position but like being able to have that conversation and have someone not make excuses. And other people made excuses for Lexa

Kayla Devorak 35:20
Yeah,

Lara Taylor 35:21
and Lexa was like, Nah, I did a fucked up thing. Um, but to have someone not make excuses and not blame me for the thing.

Link Keller 35:33
mwah beautiful.

Lara Taylor 35:34
It was it was.

Kayla Devorak 35:36
Yeah.

Link Keller 35:37
Gettin’ some of that RPG catharsis?

Kayla Devorak 35:39
It was it was? Yeah, it was. It was literally like, I was giving myself exactly what I wanted to hear from the most traumatic relationship I’ve ever had. And that was a whole mood. And that was not planned. It was not planned. I was like, I just think Lexa I just want to make Lexa like Chuck Bass, because I like Chuck Bass. And we’ll see how that goes.

Josué Cardona 36:07
But so was it. Was it like a realization afterwards?

Kayla Devorak 36:11
Yeah.

Josué Cardona 36:11
Or as it was happening?

Kayla Devorak 36:13
I mean, I so the the holding Lexa accountable was was intentional and planned. The realization that, oh, I just, I just had this conversation with Lexa, where I’m giving Lexa’s giving somebody, I’m verbally saying these things. And these are the things that I needed and should have heard from the person who harmed me. That was an after the fact thing.

Josué Cardona 36:39
Yeah,

Kayla Devorak 36:39
yeah.

Link Keller 36:42
Josué you’re asking like, Did you plan this? It’s it’s never really planned. It’s it’s a lot of unconscious work, like you are playing a character. And that character is going to go places you don’t expect Yeah, but part of you is like, hello, it’s still me in here. And we need this.

Lara Taylor 37:00
Yeah.

Kayla Devorak 37:00
My, my therapist called it said, it was like one of the most integrative things she’s ever like, witnessed. And like, I blew her mind when I was talking to her about it. And she just sat there. He was like, I think you’ve sold me on this, like, tabletop role playing thing. And then And then today, I had EMDR and managed to clear, clear that particular experience with that relationship in 20 minutes.

Link Keller 37:28
Congrats.

Kayla Devorak 37:29
Yes. And I had said as like, I think it’s going to feel different. Because I feel different about it. I walked out a messaged Lara. It was like, first thing I did. is closer

Josué Cardona 37:44
to be clear. I know. I know. It was realized afterwards. But my question was like, it wasn’t realized, like as it was happening, or did it take some time of like self reflection. And, and that’s interesting, because we always talk about taking that time to reflect on things that happen. And sometimes you, you do things right, that are that are unconscious, or you you tap into stuff and you don’t realize it. And sometimes you need a therapist, to point that out to you or a friend, because you don’t have the self awareness in that moment to realize what’s happening, or especially to find that it is something that is potentially beneficial and healing and therapeutic. Helps that you’re a bunch of therapists, but

Kayla Devorak 38:30
I try to shut it off. Lara says It’s not possible.

Lara Taylor 38:34
It’s not

Josué Cardona 38:35
we can’t do that. No,

Lara Taylor 38:36
we can’t.

Josué Cardona 38:38
I’m gonna tie it in. I can’t I can’t turn it off.

Lara Taylor 38:42
It’s um, it’s interesting because Nina and I had a conversation about our like tagline for CASTT, which is playing games with intention and talking about it. And she’s like, but how you’re not like planning out what you’re going to work on or anything. And I’m like, that’s not the intention. The intention is to be open to this right to use the thing for something. And so every time I go in, I’m willing to learn something new about myself through whatever. Like Kayla said, my other characters are not me. There are parts of me and some of them that’s always there. But like some of my other characters, I’m trying to work through understanding Nina or a family member or something, and it’s not just I’m setting out to do that. It just it happened.

Link Keller 39:41
I’m gonna make this character. It’s gonna be so fun. I’m also what what’s that? My baggage? I guess I’ll be unpacking that.

Josué Cardona 39:49
aw damn

Link Keller 39:52
I didn’t realize I brought with me but my dice bags in there. So I gotta open this baggage.

Kayla Devorak 39:58
Listen, I have not listened sent to Tegan and Sara since 2013. Okay, 2013.

Lara Taylor 40:05
and then we made this playlist, and I put a ton because it was a gay angst playlist, right? It’s it’s a playlist for Lexa and Riley, all the music that we thought of for them and their experience. And I put a ton of Tegan and Sara in there because like, what, what? Can there’s no more gay angst than that?

Kayla Devorak 40:06
It’s true.

Lara Taylor 40:08
And now Kayla is listening to Tegan and Sara.

Kayla Devorak 40:30
That’s right.

Josué Cardona 40:38
Tegan and Sara is powerful.

Lara Taylor 40:40
It is. They’re, they’re great. They have a new album dropping soon too.

Josué Cardona 40:47
I’m on Rolling for change the tagline there is game for transformation. Right? That it’s the, like I said, it’s, it’s being open to the idea that these experiences that couldn’t be just games, but they don’t have to be. We can grow we can we can, we can learn about ourselves and other people, we can process stuff we can, we can grow as big as we’re doing, we can just become something else at the end of it. And I really like that, this example, where like, Lara, you are you are you and Kayla you are the other side of it. Right? Like it shows that it can it can be their way it doesn’t have to be that we often talk about that, like then then even being open to the negative part of it. Were like, I would never do that. But you feel a certain way about it as long as you can process it. And it leads to some new understanding and some new insight that is super helpful.

Lara Taylor 41:54
It’s also helpful to have a group where you feel safe. Talking about like, this would not have happened, probably with anyone but Kayla, right? Like this. I don’t. And the group that we’re in, right, I feel safe talking about. Even though we’re streaming it, you know, people can watch but like, I feel it’s different, like I am looking at their faces. And I’m baring my soul, you know?

Josué Cardona 42:28
Yeah.

Kayla Devorak 42:28
mmhmm

Josué Cardona 42:29
So, but there’s like this conversation is kind of behind the scenes to really like there’s there’s so much going on. In addition to the to the story. There’s, there’s three therapists supporting the two of you also dealing with this outside of the game. Right. There’s, there’s, there’s a lot of support there too. Not just not just the openness to it, which is which which alone is huge, right? The openness to like, oh, yeah, I don’t know. Like, that matters, too. It’s not just a game.

Lara Taylor 42:57
Definitely. This game,

Kayla Devorak 43:02
I know, I think I think about it constantly. We’re not the end. We’re not the only ones who have had some really pivotal experiences in this particular game.

Josué Cardona 43:11
How many people end up drawing?

Lara Taylor 43:12
that is that is that is this other person’s thing to bring up in our debrief?

Kayla Devorak 43:16
Yeah.

Josué Cardona 43:17
I want to know how this led to. Okay, like, Kayla is now listening to Tegan and Sara again. Welcome. And now and Lara, you’re drawing more?

Lara Taylor 43:28
Yeah. Nina got me an iPad Air and an Apple pencil like she ordered in over a month ago. And it just got here like a week before? I think a week before the the 11th episode 11 which is the one where Kayla came back and we had the scene. And I just I just started processing things. I was like, I need to draw something. The drawings I was doing when I first got the iPad were horrible.

Link Keller 44:06
Hey! Don’t you talk bad about my friends art.

Lara Taylor 44:11
Except for I did appreciate the the giraffe with Nina’s head on it. But

Link Keller 44:17
um, that’s fine art.

Josué Cardona 44:18
I think that’s the best thing you’ve ever

Kayla Devorak 44:20
the art was great. Yeah i thought the art was Fantastic.

Josué Cardona 44:23
I will make stickers out right once you send me the file

Lara Taylor 44:28
and then I got the idea to draw. During the game my character Riley had made a charm to protect Lexa from whatever was going to happen. And the bad thing did happen like almost the worst thing did happen. Lexa got knocked unconscious and had to be rescued and all that. So I decided to draw this charm because it was like you know what, how hard is it to draw a bundle of dandelions and and it’d

Kayla Devorak 45:00
you did so good!

Lara Taylor 45:01
And it is. I was so proud of myself for that. And then being able to like mess with it after and do like, effects to have it look like there’s magic around and like it is. I’ve never felt so confident in my drawing skills or my coloring skills. And this is I had minimal, minimal help. Like from my artist wife, she just basically told me, You know what, I would use this brush if you want like a clear like effect, like, and then it spiraled into a oh I can’t remember I drew because the cauldron, the cauldron burning the book, which is different for I drew it differently from how it happens in this in the story, because visually, it wasn’t going to look as good to have the book underneath the cauldron. Yeah, it’s better with the book in the cauldron and

Link Keller 45:59
who cares about logistics. It’s all about art.

Kayla Devorak 46:03
Lexa tell Riley what happened. But then Lexa went and burned the book, which is like a very important book. After ripping out Riley’s page and giving her the page,

Link Keller 46:15
I did watch, Lara posted a couple of clips for us to watch in preparation. And that was one of them. I did really enjoy that aspect of like, this is a symbol of my betrayal of your trust. And I’m going to destroy it as a tool to be used against you. But the piece that belongs to you is being returned to you. And I thought that that was mmm, so good.

Kayla Devorak 46:15
Thank you. Yeah.

Link Keller 46:15
And I love that, like you’ve been drawing and processing that and showing it visually. And you’ve been proud of it. Like there’s, there’s there’s all these pieces of it, right? There’s this cascading effect where like, you’re more confident in your own art and in what you’re feeling. And you’re sharing it with us in multiple ways.

Lara Taylor 47:06
Well, and it parallels Riley story in this season has been finding herself in finding confidence in which in something new ish she can do, right? She’s learning a different kind of magic in this season. About she’s learning how to talk to the dead and all of that. And so I’ve never tried to do any art like this. And there was one of the drawings. I was like, I walked out of the office when I was working on it. And I showed Nina I was almost in tears. Look how good this is. I think it was

Josué Cardona 47:45
and how meaningful, too.

Lara Taylor 47:47
right, right. I don’t think it was the moonscape one. I did one later of a planchette which is like what you use on a Ouija board to talk to the dead. And I was like I did the shading on this. I don’t do shading. And I figured it out on my own how to do it. And like I just so I’m finding confidence in a new skill at the same time. Riley is and this this game, this game, I need to write all this for our debrief.

Link Keller 48:19
I love that. Just having like

Kayla Devorak 48:20
I’ve taken so many notes. Yeah,

Link Keller 48:21
having you know, a one shot I’m just gonna put myself in this game. It’s magical world. It’s like whatever. It’s no, not a big deal. And then the framing of being like, I’m not really familiar with role playing games, and I’m unsure of my self in this way and having that launch off this whole character arc, and then have that be reflected right back into your own life not just in the art stuff, but in the role playing stuff is like you feel more confident in playing these games now. In in your art at it. I love that. That’s so cool.

Lara Taylor 48:56
That’s right when we were recording GT adventures, I talked about how I hadn’t role played in over a decade. And I was really worried about it because the last time I had played d&d before that was my friend, James who passed away. He was my DM and I had never had another DM and Brandon was wonderful and then he dropped off the face of the earth. But I have found

Josué Cardona 49:22
rest in peace

Link Keller 49:23
stop saying that! he is not dead yet.

Lara Taylor 49:30
We still need to play one more time. We just need one more time to beat the dragon

Kayla Devorak 49:33
tell him to come to castt gamers and play. So open invitation. Mm hmm. I can do those things because I’m the iron fish.

Lara Taylor 49:42
You are the iron fish you have spoken. But I think in a lot of like I still have I realized where my I am realizing more now through processing I am doing about myself why I have certain shortcomings when it comes to role playing. Like it takes me longer to process things and I try to think of what I want to say. And then by then sometimes stuff is moved on or like, I’m on the spot. And I’m like, I don’t I don’t know. But it has been easier for me to manage. And I think I mean, I’ve had a blast. The last year and a half.

Kayla Devorak 50:27
I’m so glad I asked if you wanted to play. It was like yeah, on a whim thing. I like slid into Lara’s DMs was like a you want to play kids brooms with us?

Lara Taylor 50:39
Yeah, absolutely and now here we are want to play out here.

Link Keller 50:43
hey, Wanna to play a fun little one off and also it’s gonna change your fucking life.

Kayla Devorak 50:48
Yeah, I literally sent the day Lara’s sent the charm drawing, I literally sent it to my tattoo artist, and I said, we need to change part of this tattoo.

Lara Taylor 50:58
Like I said, like less than an hour. She’s like, I’m gonna turn it into a tattoo. And I was like, do it. Okay, watch me.

Kayla Devorak 51:06
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 51:09
And then you’re not the only one I have mentioned, thinking about getting a tattoo. One thing one of the drawings I did. In part of Lexa’s, like trying to repair things, she magically removes the scar that Riley has and turns it into a marigold. And I’ve, I’m thinking about getting one but I have other tattoos I need to get first to process some some stuff of my own. That’s Other than this, and, but then I thought about it. And I was like, I’m willing to tattoo. A flower that is orange on my arm, and I hate orange. But it’s okay. It’s okay.

Kayla Devorak 51:56
Yeah, to be fair. I mean, the charm, fits the tattoo piece that it’s going into my half sleeve that I have is a half sleeve. That’s representative of my like, own queer journey. So I’m just removing one of the succulents and telling her you need to put this in, this has to go in. Which is great. Because it’ll be finished soon. So

Lara Taylor 52:20
yeah

Josué Cardona 52:23
sounds like we need a sequel to our tattoo episode. Like two years ago.

Kayla Devorak 52:28
Yeah, I mean, this tattoo is I’ll get on the tangent. So.

Josué Cardona 52:34
Alright, so any, any anything else you want to share about? Kind of the experience? Any any, like, advice for people who may come to that Crossroads? Because you said something before where? Like, you don’t? Like it’s a special group or right, it feels that way. So like, what criteria do you think people should consider if they’re going to, if they’re even aware, or even afterwards, as they as they become aware of the fact that like, oh, wait a minute, I’m going down a path here. That is, that might be difficult.

Lara Taylor 53:14
It takes, like, I mean, you can find a therapeutic quality in just any homebrew any game with your friends. I think that it’s a matter of someone who having a group where the safety is in, like built in. And it is like, both implicit and explicit that it is safe, right? We talk about safety at our table all the time. And it takes it did take time. Like I wouldn’t have made this journey a year and a half ago necessarily. It’s when I started it

Kayla Devorak 53:58
we did.

Josué Cardona 54:01
I’m like I can imagine how painful it could be if you decide to do something like that. And then even just one other person at the table it’s just like completely set to derail you know, the path that you’re on now or doesn’t you know, just for the sake of drama or story or something right when because you’re being so vulnerable at that moment. But you’re literally processing going through your feelings

Lara Taylor 54:38
and in this situation like you have to have a good like this is a GM game you need a good GM who’s going to listen, right? We’ve talked several times. It’s interesting cuz Scott will bring up like, why you will telling Dustin our, our GM, what to do with your characters and we’re like, because we have player agency Like, we get to say, this is a line, I do not want crossed with my character. This is something that I think is really important and I want to include.

Kayla Devorak 55:10
And Dustin, we have our final debrief this Friday. And Dustin is actually planning on talking quite a bit about being having taken the role as the Game Master and player consent and player agency. And how that part of it, I think part of it, I think, is Dustin took a very active role in creating a game that gave us as the players a lot of agency and a lot of consent. And he had a lot of background conversations about, hey, here’s what I’m thinking, for example, like he, he would he would come to me and say, Hey, I here’s what I’m thinking about for Lexa’s father, does this ring true, and then I would respond. And then when I was gone for those two weeks, I that then in turn gave him my responses to him where here’s the lines, you can’t cross. And these are the things that I want to make sure don’t happen until Lexa’s conscious again. And then he he respected those some some game masters or dungeon masters, you know, when

Lara Taylor 56:19
they’re like screw it, I want my story to be this.

Kayla Devorak 56:22
Yeah,

Link Keller 56:23
it’s really important to keep the framework of this is a cooperative game, you have somebody who is positioned as the the leader, the Game Master, what have you, but they are a player too. And if you want the play space to be fun, everybody needs to feel like they are heard and that their wishes are respected, and that they they are respected and finding a good GM DM, who looks at games in that framework is, I think, really important if that is the kind of play you want to have.

Josué Cardona 57:01
Yeah, I’m glad you made that distinction. Because some people just want random craziness and some people, right and

Lara Taylor 57:07
and there’s room for that.

Link Keller 57:08
And you get

Lara Taylor 57:09
that’s what people at the table want

Link Keller 57:11
and you can have like a totally silly game that is very much being led by one person and still have like an aha moment, internally or between people relationship wise. But going into it with that idea of like, this is what we want to do, is we want to have these moments we want these characters to go through stuff that is meaningful and heavy, complicated and worth expanding upon. And getting into and that requires us to be vulnerable, which means we need to feel safe.

Josué Cardona 57:47
Yeah. At the very you know, if, if at the table, you don’t find support, look for support, you know, somewhere else rely on your support system and tell them about the experience we’re having and how you’re feeling. take that time to reflect. Because, because that that’s where the magic happens. It’s in that reflection and understanding and yeah, thank you so much for sharing.

Link Keller 58:16
Before we wrap up, we’ve been talking about a lot of like really emotional moments of of your guys’s game. I would just love to hear a little snippet of something that really gave you joy.

Kayla Devorak 58:30
So

Lara Taylor 58:31
there were so many

Kayla Devorak 58:32
I Lexa plays rugby. That is like one of the very few similarities that we I have in common with Lexa but I got it kids on brooms has exploding dice. And so if you roll that the highest score if you roll the highest on the die it can you get to continue to roll it. And so she’s She rolled like a 29 and basically like won the whole rugby game is fantastic. I loved it. And Riley’s barrel roll. When we were doing broom riding.

Lara Taylor 59:06
Riley can do a barrel roll on a broom.

Josué Cardona 59:09
That’s not a euphemism, right?

Kayla Devorak 59:13
No, no,

Lara Taylor 59:14
no, no,

Kayla Devorak 59:15
no Riley Lexa taught Riley how to ride a broom quite well. And now Lexa has forgotten how to ride a broom. So

Lara Taylor 59:25
Riley has to decide whether she’s going to help Lexa or not.

Kayla Devorak 59:29
Yes, because I’ll tell you a secret. It’s an auto fail. Lexa cannot write a broom right now. She will auto fail, which means you know she’ll fall

Lara Taylor 59:45
there are so many moments in this game that have brought us joy and laughter and like crying like tears laughter but as far as like joy for myself, I think I had Well, I had the exploding dice when I did the the creation of the charm. So the charm actually worked to protect Lexa. But I really enjoyed the moment in our final episode in Episode 12 Riley’s trying to raise the dead. And just like, she raised, like three spirits from the dead to help save the day and like

Link Keller 1:00:27
hell yeah

Lara Taylor 1:00:27
the confidence of being able to not just talk to a ghost and get like, one or two word answers, but like, bringing the dead and controlling them and is now possibly possessed by a ghost?

Kayla Devorak 1:00:42
Possibly possessed. yeah

Josué Cardona 1:00:44
stay tuned for season 2

Kayla Devorak 1:00:46
Lexa, Lexa did give Riley some blood for that, but the casting was pretty great. Mm hmm. That was pretty epic.

Lara Taylor 1:00:54
It was

Kayla Devorak 1:00:55
like, Damn, she’s gonna get three!

Lara Taylor 1:00:59
three spirits. But yeah, and there’s lots of hilarity and like Tim who plays Calvin is great at being our comedic relief that

Kayla Devorak 1:01:12
he’s the off-beat eccentric and he is so eccentric.

Lara Taylor 1:01:17
We had a we had a glowing

Kayla Devorak 1:01:19
rainbow

Lara Taylor 1:01:20
raccoon with a rainbow like a rainbow lance.

Link Keller 1:01:24
Oh, my God. Yeah.

Kayla Devorak 1:01:26
Yeah, we’re still waiting on art for that. But

Lara Taylor 1:01:29
yeah,

Kayla Devorak 1:01:29
that’ll go on some some kind of merch, I promise you.

Lara Taylor 1:01:32
And we have we also have a playlist for the entire not just Lexa and Riley but a playlist for the whole season of yale-capades

Kayla Devorak 1:01:41
Yale-capades. Yes. Yes.

Lara Taylor 1:01:43
And Nina did the art for the album cover.

Kayla Devorak 1:01:46
We have great. It is great. We also have a raccoon in Yale booty pants that say Yale on the back on the butt.

Lara Taylor 1:01:59
Mm hmm.

Link Keller 1:01:59
Yes.

Kayla Devorak 1:02:01
Yeah, it’s pretty. Pretty great.

Josué Cardona 1:02:04
where’s the drawing of the raccoon in the yale booty pants.

Kayla Devorak 1:02:07
It’s the it’s the album cover.

Josué Cardona 1:02:10
Oh, it is? Oh, share, please.

Kayla Devorak 1:02:14
I will I will happily share the playlist with you. It’s six hours long.

Lara Taylor 1:02:18
Because it’s all of our characters and Dustin’s inspiration as creating the world. Yes.

Kayla Devorak 1:02:25
And there’s seven of us.

Josué Cardona 1:02:30
tabletop RPG sounds terrible.

Link Keller 1:02:34
They’ll ruin your life, but in a good way.

Kayla Devorak 1:02:38
in a good way

Josué Cardona 1:02:39
Nothing about them sounds fun, or interesting. Or

Lara Taylor 1:02:44
so boring.

Josué Cardona 1:02:45
Damn. I know. I know. I know. We’ve had a few. We’ve had a few tabletop RPG episodes, like, trying to sell the idea to anyone who’s never done it before. I think this one, we might put this one at the top of the list. I think

Kayla Devorak 1:03:01
this is like I think the most powerful experience I’ve had playing. And I had I had a recent character that I had a similar thing happened where I was like, Oh, wow. Wow. This is like tops it. I thought that was good. This is like, I don’t know what we did. we did something.

Lara Taylor 1:03:21
I dunno what we did either. It’s um, I talked about how I figured out I was queer by playing role playing games when I was younger. And this is more powerful than that. So

Josué Cardona 1:03:37
yeah, yeah,

Lara Taylor 1:03:38
play some RPGs

Kayla Devorak 1:03:40
Yeah, we’re gonna play like we’re gonna play two player games in the offseason to see where they Yeah, it’s a whole that we it’s a whole thing.

Lara Taylor 1:03:50
It’s a whole thing

Kayla Devorak 1:03:51
we’re invested

Lara Taylor 1:03:51
where idea we message ideas to launch other I’m going to possibly start writing creatively, which I haven’t done in over a decade.

Josué Cardona 1:04:01
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing this, this experience and kind of the behind the scenes and how it’s affected you and all the pieces that just in this episode. Were kind of you know, over the last couple of weeks, it was it. I couldn’t wait to hear more because I could tell how great it was for you Lara. So so I’m glad to

Lara Taylor 1:04:28
watch some awkwardness between us go watch the clips and highlights on on twitch or watch the full episodes on YouTube.

Josué Cardona 1:04:36
Yeah. All right. Any any final closing thoughts? No, Lara you good? Kayla, anything you want to say? No? plug CASTT one more time.

Kayla Devorak 1:04:47
What do you say?

Josué Cardona 1:04:47
plug castt one more time?

Kayla Devorak 1:04:49
I mean, yeah, you know if you if you well, until I get that form filled figured out and finished. You can find me in the Geek Therapy discord. I think it’s at KDevaux K d e V a u x

Josué Cardona 1:05:03
or just ask for

Kayla Devorak 1:05:04
or just asked for Kayla from castt somebody you will know who that you’re talking about.

Josué Cardona 1:05:07
ask for Lexa

Kayla Devorak 1:05:09
or Lexa, There you go

Lara Taylor 1:05:15
oh, there’s a final thought that like we were joking. And Kayla said what if we have Riley and Lexa on GT radio?

Kayla Devorak 1:05:23
I made a joke. that was a Joke.

Lara Taylor 1:05:26
You made a joke. And then the next week Josué, he’s like, do you want to have Kayla on and talk about it?

Link Keller 1:05:31
Never joke.

Josué Cardona 1:05:33
Don’t joke. Don’t joke about podcasting I can hear it.

Kayla Devorak 1:05:36
I Lara had done something for me in our channel. And I said, Have I told you that I love you lately. And Dustin said, hey, now leave it for the stream. And then Lara said, I just bust out laughing on GT radio.

Lara Taylor 1:05:53
I was. And it was a moment where my laughter was, like warranted so I wasn’t looked at my phone on.

Kayla Devorak 1:06:00
And then I said and then that’s when I said you we should have lexan Riley on GT radio as a joke.

Josué Cardona 1:06:09
don’t Joke about podcasting.

Kayla Devorak 1:06:12
If you want to tune in without watching all the shows, you can tune in Friday on Twitch castt underscore gamers for our debrief. Otherwise catch us when we go back to wander home.

Lara Taylor 1:06:28
And Kayla and I play a very different dynamic,

Kayla Devorak 1:06:32
different characters. Different relationship is more like a parent child relationship. Yeah, should be interesting.

Josué Cardona 1:06:43
Link any any closing thoughts?

Link Keller 1:06:44
Ah, not really. Thank you, Kayla, for joining us. This has been a really fun episode. And I this was great. I love hearing about kids on bikes and all the fun. Big, big brain big heart moments. That’s That’s my catnip. Num, num, num, num.

Kayla Devorak 1:07:04
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This is fun. And if you either have you ever want to play with us. I know Josué, you’ve played with us. But

Josué Cardona 1:07:12
I got into it a little bit

Kayla Devorak 1:07:14
it’s an open.

Josué Cardona 1:07:14
I did.

Kayla Devorak 1:07:15
You sure did.

Lara Taylor 1:07:16
Sure did.

Kayla Devorak 1:07:19
Robot and all. It’s an open invitation.

Josué Cardona 1:07:25
Thank you. Thank you,

Kayla Devorak 1:07:26
you know where to find us.

Josué Cardona 1:07:27
I do. Cast 7 Ts. That’s right, and two underscores gamers. Thank you so much for listening. You can find the actual link to to finding castt gamers in the show notes and links to all of our community spaces. For more Geek Therapy, visit geek therapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. And we’ll be back next week. Bye

Link Keller 1:07:54
Buh bye!

Josué Cardona 1:07:56
Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

• Kids on Bikes (TTRPG)
• Kids on Brooms (TTRPG)
• Dungeons & Dragons (TTRPG)
• World of Darkness (TTRPG)

Conversation Topics:

* Betrayal
* Change
* Consequences
* Difficult emotions
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* Guilt
* Honesty/Lies
* LGBT Issues
* Love
* Making new friends
* Moral dilemma
* Trust
* Redemption

Relatable Experience:

* Clarity/Understanding
* Coming of age/Getting older
* Guilt
* Catharsis
* Trauma
* Debriefing

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