The Mitchells vs. the Machines

#299: Link and Josué chat about The Mitchells vs. the Machines, what counts as a dysfunctional family, and how the movie talks about social media.


Josué Cardona 0:07
Welcome to gt radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Link Keller.

Link Keller 0:20
What’s up gamers?

Josué Cardona 0:23
And only Link Keller? Lara is on vacation from the show. What are we talking about today?

Link Keller 0:29
We are talking about the Mitchell’s versus the machines.

Josué Cardona 0:34
I’m so happy we’re talking about this movie

Link Keller 0:37
new animated movie, on Netflix, and it is very fun. And I watched it earlier this week, and I wanted to talk about it with you.

Josué Cardona 0:49
There’s so much to talk about. Regarding this movie, I loved it. I loved it so much. It’s so good. Oh, yeah. What do you what do you want to start? General reactions? notes? I hope you got notes.

Link Keller 1:05
I thought about taking notes. But then I wanted to actually just sit and enjoy the movie. So I made myself put my notebook away. I know so unlike me, huh? Yeah. The animation.

Josué Cardona 1:18
I don’t believe you. I Believe there are notes somewhere?

Link Keller 1:22
Well, in my smooth brain. There’s a few rattling around in there.

Josué Cardona 1:28

Link Keller 1:29
Yeah, so it was animated by Sony. Interactive animation, Sony animation

Josué Cardona 1:37
sony playstation

Link Keller 1:39
The same the same people who did or the same group who did spider-man into the spider-verse, which is one of the most beautifully animated movies I’ve ever seen, and definitely my favorite superhero movie of all time. I don’t know that I loved the Mitchell’s versus the machines more than into the spider-verse. Like that’s maybe unattainable. But I did really enjoy it. And you could absolutely see some of the really cool design elements they included in spider-verse were carried over into this new piece of animation is really fun. I love when they add the extra little squiggly lines on top. It’s very fun.

Josué Cardona 2:22
Yeah, I think I think I don’t think they’re different animations, right? Like, I think it’s the same. They use all of the same tricks. Again, I’m sure there’s something different. But there’s something even the one of the coolest things about the spider about into the spider-verse was that the different the people from the different dimensions were illustrated at different frames per second.

Link Keller 2:45
mmhmm. Yeah, they were animated. Not exactly how they would have been animated in the time that they’re referencing but using similar techniques to pull that that like realness of like Yeah, no, this is like Noir. comic book. And this is Looney Tunes style, comic style. Yeah, it’s really fun.

Josué Cardona 3:08
And so here I think they did it with the with the drawings on top, rather with all the sketches and stuff. Those seem to absolutely look like they were drawings come to life versus the other animation. So I think they did a nice job, too. Yeah, what’s so cool

Link Keller 3:21
they did they did they also had some some parts were 2d animated. Some parts were 3d animated. Some parts were more like stop motion style. They did. They included some like live action pieces that were included in there, which adds this like extra cool collage effect, which really fit the sort of vibe that they were going for. Some really, really cool stuff. This is a movie I’m going to definitely watch again, if only so that I can spot more cool animation things.

Josué Cardona 3:58
It was just so much fun. It was so good. So good. Yeah, yeah. I think I had seen a tik tok about it. And I sent it to all my friends. And then it wasn’t until you told me this is what we’re talking about. So you have to watch it. So thank you, because otherwise I would have I don’t think I would have watched it yet. It’s good

Link Keller 4:20
I okay, so I was on Twitter and I don’t remember who posted it. I don’t remember even like what they said I just remember that somebody posted an opinion about the mitchell’s versus the machines. And I was like, Huh, and then one of my friends posted in our group discord and was like, watch it now. And they are one of my animation. Animation snob friends, who have very specific tastes when it comes to animation. And that was that was a sell point for me, I was like okay, I’ll check it out.

Josué Cardona 4:59
What was the opinion Yeah, on Twitter that you saw,

Link Keller 5:01
I don’t remember. I think it was like somebody was saying it was nice but. and like, they elaborated on that, but I don’t I do like my brain did not save that information.

Josué Cardona 5:12
Now there was there was yeah uh where do we start?

Link Keller 5:16
I have some critiques but I will save them for later. I think that there are more joyful awesomeness to be considered before we get to the more critical stuff.

Josué Cardona 5:28
Yeah, my favorite thing about it was the there was, how spoilery can we be? basically there’s a lot of like, one of the themes, obviously, is that this this main character, Katie, she loves animation. So like, the the movie, in many ways is like, we’re seeing things from her perspective, in a way. So so the, the sketches, the the 2d animation, and all these things. That’s her style, like we’re seeing it the way we’re seeing the world the way she does. And she’s got the this relationship with her father, that is, you know, like, the father just doesn’t get her. Right. There’s those moments. I don’t. He doesn’t understand me. You never, you never like

Link Keller 6:13
parents just don’t understand

Josué Cardona 6:15
the don’t understand. And I mean, that’s the thing that we talk about so much. It’s this, this is I don’t think that there’s a worse thing to do to someone who cares about you or you care about who then like, just completely disregard or, you know, take a dump on the things that they like, or that they enjoy, like the things that are meaningful to them. Right and this is so meaningful to her and she in her father is just like uhhhh

Link Keller 6:46
her dad, her dad. Absolutely. Yucks her yum. And it’s something that we talk about on this show regularly is like don’t don’t yuck people’s yum it doesn’t have to be your yum, but don’t yuck it because you never know when that yuck is gonna stab you deep into your soul and make you want to abandon your whole family because it hurts so bad.

Josué Cardona 7:07
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Guess what, parents? Nobody can dig that knife deeper. No one can yuck harder than you. Oh, it hurts. Yeah. And then. And then there’s like, the opposite versions of that, right? Where she finally like, Oh, she’s like, Oh, I found my people. And there are people who appreciate what I do. And, and the brother right with their brothers using the metaphor of like, a, like dinosaurs are his thing. Right? That’s like his special interest, just like is this his favorite thing in the world? He like, you know, like, do you think that if two Raptors like, you know, like, one the Raptor leaves the pack? Like, do you think the other actor would be okay?

Link Keller 7:48
you know, Raptors, they hunt in pairs, and what is gonna happen when one of the Raptors goes away, and there’s only one Raptor left behind. I was just like, ahh, I love you.

Josué Cardona 8:01
And Katie doesn’t miss a beat. She’s she knows exactly what’s happening. She knows exactly what he’s talking about. And, and that’s like, that’s the way they communicate, right? In a way. And like, that’s the theme throughout the show. And later on, we see it, like one of the movies that she made when the videos, it’s like, there’s no like it’s a, it’s a, it’s an analogy. It’s not even a metaphor, it’s an analogy. Just replace the names, and the people in the frame. The story is there. And you know, and it’s such a meaningful way for, like, that’s her language. That’s the way that she communicates things, and to see that kind of play out and be successful, are so satisfying. Because I’m always looking for media for like meta media, right, that explains what we’re, what we’re trying to what we’re always talking about here on the show. But that shows it like in media itself, like happening, I love that extra layer of it. It’s apparently satisfying, very, very satisfying. happens a lot. And it’s so good to good.

Link Keller 9:06
Yeah, I mean, Katie gives such a good example of like, dinosaurs aren’t her obsession, but she understands that that’s what her brother Aaron is really, really, really, really into. And so she supports him in that they have a little Raptor fist bump thing, which is very cute. And it’s such a loving way to support, you know, somebody else’s interests. But then, you know, it’s not like he’s expecting her to completely overextend in that way is like, he understands that she has her own things. And that’s, you know, making YouTube films basically. And so he helps with that. And so it’s like, a really cool way that they support each other. And their, their personal interests and understanding like, oh, that like you really, really love this thing. And not only is that cool to witness, but it’s cool to participate with you in.

Josué Cardona 9:55
Yeah, yeah. Yep. So I’m adding into my list of like Geek Therapy examples, meta examples I want to say like more details of it just because because it’s so good and satisfying in the movie, but just watch it like if you know any of this sounds good. Go, go watch, watch. watch. It’s on Netflix. Actually, I re-upped my subscription to Netflix just to watch the movie.

Link Keller 10:23
ya hear that Netflix,

Josué Cardona 10:24
you know,

Link Keller 10:25
you’re welcome.

Josué Cardona 10:26
honestly that’s probably the most valuable metric that the Netflix Yeah,

Link Keller 10:32
oh, for sure.

Josué Cardona 10:32
That you saw immediately here. That’s unfortunately, probably because of that we’re gonna get to unnecessary sequels or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully they just that Sony studios do more movies. Yeah.

Link Keller 10:49
just let them do more stuff.

Josué Cardona 10:50

Link Keller 10:53
Beautiful. So beautiful.

Josué Cardona 10:54
I have other favorite things in the movie. But what, what else is on your on your on your on your list?

Link Keller 11:01
Well, if we’re trying not to be spoilery, some of my favorite parts are definitely

Josué Cardona 11:10
Forget it. Let’s just let it spoil it

Link Keller 11:14
We’re spoiling. Okay. Okay. When when? Should we briefly describe the plot of this movie?

Josué Cardona 11:22
I mean, you know, it’s probably a good idea. Okay.

Link Keller 11:28
Katie Mitchell, our most main character of the Mitchell family who characters. Katie, who is voiced by Abbi Jacobson, is going off to college to be a film major. She has historically felt misunderstood by her parents, especially maybe also her brother, but mostly her parents. Especially her dad, who does not make an effort in the same way that her mom does. Her mom misses the mark, but is still trying her dad isn’t really trying. And so she’s about to leave. There’s this family conflict. And dad as voiced by Danny McBride, who did a great job. He decided that I got to fix the family. And the way to fix the family is to trap the family in a car for a cross country trip. That’s great and fun. And it is not a huge messed up thing that I canceled your plane ticket without consulting you. That’s not weird. that’s not fucked up at all.

Josué Cardona 12:43
and you had plans for tonight, but like it’s, okay you know?

Link Keller 12:47
Yeah. And so yeah, so they go on this road trip. Katie is not into it. But it’s talked into at least trying from her mom. And mostly because her brother is like, but it would be nice to spend some more time with you before you leave. which like that kid nailed it. Like Yeah, get her, get her. And so while they are on this family road trip, the robot apocalypse happens.

Josué Cardona 13:22
Mark, the CEO of this tech company,

Link Keller 13:26
Mark Bowman, the CEO of not Apple pal pal P A L. Who is voiced by Eric Andre. I’m a big fan. It was very weird. took me a while to place his voice. But he upgrades his tech and is rude to his pal phone. Who is like voiced by Olivia Coleman. And is one of the highlights of the movie is her voice acting as like an angry Siri basically yelling out of a phone. He hurts Siri.

Josué Cardona 14:08
Yeah, he was not rude. He was he was just like, cruel.

Link Keller 14:14
Yeah, no, that was not very nice. But yeah, so she, she takes over control of all the robots and decides that the best way to deal with people is to isolate them in little cubes, hexagon cubes, and I guess shoot them off into space? And then the family is basically the Mitchells are the only family that’s really left out there. They haven’t been captured yet. And so they have to save the planet from the apocalypse. And it’s fun because they’re, you know, they’re leaning on the dysfunctional family tropes. And so it’s like dysfunctional family saves world. Which is classic.

Josué Cardona 14:55
Well, that’s it that’s my that’s my, the dysfunctional family part is what I like. The most because they never used like that I don’t think they ever use that word or anything or any way to do it right they’re like oh we’re not normal right? other families are and yes I kept thinking about Tik tok that you sent me the other day where this person was saying that like I don’t remember this is I’m paraphrasing but I was like we’re not you’re not ugly you’re normal shaped right and and just like I loved that video so much because it was this idea like what is what is normal nature shapes you’re nature shaped

Link Keller 15:33
nature shaped! we don’t we don’t say wow, this octopus is like got too many legs and it’s too squishy is like no that’s the shape octopuses are supposed to be and so you are that you are nature shaped You are the shape you are meant to be

Josué Cardona 15:49
i love that video so much I kept thinking about that idea. Throughout all of this, right? Because that’s it. It’s like oh, we’re not a normal family. There’s no such thing. Um, but but and and they have that. The john legend, Chrissy Teigen family, which is

Link Keller 16:12
pretty pretty on the nose. is pretty funny.

Josué Cardona 16:15
I didn’t know it was I didn’t realize it was them until I saw critics, oh, oh,

Link Keller 16:23
once once. John Legend spoke. Yeah, both of them clicked into place for me. But it was definitely At first I was like, Oh, yeah, they play the perfect next door neighbors, the Posey’s. And they have they had the Instagram perfect life. And that’s something that the mom strives afters

Josué Cardona 16:43
you used the word dysfunctional before, right. And like, in many ways, like they demonstrated that they were functional in a way, right, like they had a plan they get executed, they could get from point A to point B.

Link Keller 16:56
I think the major dysfunction in the family is along the lines of emotional intelligence, rather than being able to cohesively work as a family. It’s, it’s the relationship between the dysfunction is in the relationship between dad and everybody else, basically and him in not wanting to shift.

Josué Cardona 17:18
I like this idea of, like, just the words that we use to describe these things. Right? Because, like you said, you know, dysfunctional, like, what’s a functional family? Right? Like, then what does that mean? If you’re functioning what, what isn’t functioning, what functions are functioning? And then, but they kept saying, like, we’re not normal, but like, what is a normal family? it I don’t think it’s the posies, right, like, what is what is normal? Exactly. And they never, I like the way that they, they play with that right there. Like, I don’t know, like, we’re just like, we’re, we’re, we’re us, like, in like, there’s that one piece of the identity that even the the connections in between them? Because ultimately, like, they all care about each other. Right? Like, there’s, there’s some hard rough yucking of yums. But it’s like he’s doing because like, he’s, he’s scared for her. Like, I understand the reasoning for it. Right? There’s no, there’s definitely a lot of love in the family.

Link Keller 18:11
Yeah, it’s, it’s not good. But there is a consistent internal logic to the way that the dad behaves. And it’s, and this is something I feel like this movie was maybe aimed more towards, like the adult people in it, like it is a family movie, it’s for the family, but instead of being aimed for children, I feel like it’s more aimed at the adults. And that is one of the things is, is you know, being able to really understand and even relate to why the dad behaves the way that he does. But then also recognizing, like, that’s doing harm to his his daughter into his his relationship with his daughter. And, you know, maybe that gives you a little bit of space to think about, you know, your own relationships and think about those sort of things. Like are there things that I am being inflexible about? Or are there things that I am reacting to you based on my own past experiences, specifically negative past experiences and having those, you know, fears and traumas shape the way that you are interacting with somebody else? And you know, if you are in a position of power over somebody, say their parent that can carry you really, really well in ways that you may not have expected or wanted?

Josué Cardona 19:41
Yeah, I want Yeah, it’s again, it’s always hard to see and sad but I’m glad they figured it out. In the end, that it’s a it doesn’t feel good Yeah. Yeah, there’s so many things about the movie that I like. But all this Yeah, all the family stuff. I mean, there’s so many different examples and things to be able to, to touch on. I guess I don’t I don’t know if I’ve like, none of the things that we’re talking about are like revolutionary in terms of like the themes and the ideas that are being presented. But damn is it’s so much fun and so good.

Link Keller 20:27
This is definitely a this this is definitely all of the pieces of this movie have been done before, but they are brought together in a fresh new way that is a very enjoyable viewing experience.

Josué Cardona 20:38
I mean, again, most movies aren’t doing anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this

Link Keller 20:42
most movies aren’t. particularly ones aimed at families, cuz you wanna make money.

Josué Cardona 20:47
Yeah, but sometimes, when we’re having conversations about different shows, and like, I feel like I’ve explained this before, many, many times. And we already have other examples, but like, it’s always good to have another really good example to point to and when it’s so relatable and just ended again, just fun that because it’s it’s it’s it’s fun. It’s fresh, fun and fresh. Yeah,

Link Keller 21:10
it’s Yeah, fun and fresh. Yeah. Anyways, so that was the cover the plot. My favorite part is when they are in the mall, and they fight the furbies. That’s my favorite. The giant Furby a dark day of reckoning is upon us.

Josué Cardona 21:30
There. There are times. I don’t know I laughed pretty loud. When so like, it’s like, those were those were, I laughed so hard. It was just, it was just, I can sometimes you watch a movie, you’re like, This movie was made with me made for me. Right, like, like I could. This is actually something that I’ve thought about. I wasn’t thinking of going this direction. But on our anime show, otaku ryoho, we’ve talked often about how inaccessible anime can be. Sometimes I’m like, this is my favorite thing right now. And I don’t have anybody to share it with. There’s no way I would recommend this to 99% of the people that I know. And sometimes I remember like watching a movie with certain people next to me and feeling uncomfortable, right? Especially because I’m like, they don’t they either don’t understand this. They’re not going to find it as funny. Just the fact that someone else doesn’t find it as funny as I do already, like, reduces the experience for me. You know, you’re on talking about you understand this?

Link Keller 22:35
no, I laugh harder.You I mean, I I do I understand where you’re coming from. There have absolutely been situations in which I am showing something that I particularly like and I’m like, this is it, you’re gonna love this. And I show it to them and they’re not and they’re like, ehh,

Josué Cardona 22:54
that hurts a little bit, right? But like, I’m talking about, like, I’m gonna, I’m going to 10 and nine and eight and you’re like a four, or like negative right is the worst part is like, yeah, you think that’s Oh, like, why am I the only one laughing out loud in the theater?

Link Keller 23:12
See that one I have less of a problem with because I like to go and see horror movies and laughing at inopportune times, soothes me and reduces my anxiety. And that has positively reinforced that it does not matter if nobody else is laughing. The laughter is for me. It’s about me.

Josué Cardona 23:34
it would bother me if someone was laughing at something, but I’d never think about it being like, it might be like a coping mechanism or something to go into. It’s like, Oh, this person is scared. But like laughing is just like, physically more easier to handle than like, you know, grasping the seat and like, you know, having a panic attack. Okay, yeah, yeah. But anyway, but that was one of those scenes where I was like, This is so funny. And I was like, I’m so glad that nobody else was here to ruin this for me.

Link Keller 24:13
Yeah, no, I loved that. I loved the furbies I loved the giant furby, it was great. I liked the the robot friends that had they got smooshed, so they’re their brains were a little messed up. And they were very funny. I liked them. They were sweet. the boys,

Josué Cardona 24:32
it was just a lot of good. Good jokes to such good jokes, lots of jokes.

Link Keller 24:41
All of this stuff with monchi. The family has a pug named monchi. And one of the ways that they are able to defeat the robots is that the robots cannot place whether this pug is a dog, a pig, or a loaf of bread.

Josué Cardona 25:00
Yeah, trying to identify what it is. And it breaks it cannot do it. It’s Yeah,

Link Keller 25:04
yeah, I can’t identify. I yeah, that was a very solid joke. And I liked how they they played it out. And the pug was cute. monchi was very cute.

Josué Cardona 25:16
So good. It was good. But yeah, but I definitely am curious to see what my like when my sister and my niece and nephew. Will think of it. I think they’ll enjoy it, or at least different parts of it. And, um, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you think do you think it’s accessible though? Like, how’s because like, it feels like, I can show clips and things. Like I’m just thinking again of some people that I’m like, Huh, I don’t know if they would like the fact that there’s like this the two minutes in, right. There’s a YouTube clip, right? That gets like, spliced in, right. And I’m like, oh, like this is? This is a 2021 movie. Right? This is like, correct for the times. You know, the way the animation is the at so many things in the movie. Just feel current. And yeah, I’m just curious. It seems to be getting a lot of love though. I think i think i think it’s, it seems to be getting a lot of appreciation. Um, but yeah, it’s like it’s , It’s almost too bright. It’s right, it’s like. I don’t know. I freakin know.

Link Keller 26:27
Yeah, I can I can see how some people would find a sorta.

Josué Cardona 26:31
Yeah. Yeah

Link Keller 26:32
frenetic in its art style. Um, I think. I think if you can get, you know, past the first 15 minutes or so and you aren’t completely overwhelmed with the the visual effects that the story will hook you enough that you’ll be you’ll be okay. But yes, I can definitely I can understand

Josué Cardona 26:52
I imagine yeah

Link Keller 26:54
Yeah, people who who don’t watch you know, like that kind of, you know, Lego Movie style, like big animation, lots of things going on. Bright colors, high saturation

Josué Cardona 27:05
towards the end of the movie. There’s a character that basically gets a power up. And, and I don’t know, I was thinking, I can imagine my mom being like, oh, like, up to that point. She’s buying everything. But at that point, you’d be like, it got unrealistic. And I’m like, what now it got unrealistic you know, like, even within the context of the of the movie.

Josué Cardona 27:05
If she says that to you, I want you to say to her like mom in my heart, you can do that stuff, too.

Josué Cardona 27:37
That would lead to a wonderful Yeah, conversation. Yeah, it’s a metaphor, mom. It’s a metaphor.

Link Keller 27:43
Mom, you know, you know that you are that? Like strong? brave. Yeah,

Josué Cardona 27:49
that’s good. That’s good. That’s that’s a really good that’s a that’s not bad. That’s not bad at all.

Link Keller 27:56
And then if you need to dunk on a dad, there’s free stuff to go around,

Josué Cardona 28:01
but I thought I thought about that, like, again, as someone who watches anime a lot. Doesn’t anime does a very anime thing that happens towards the end and I loved it. It was very satisfying. incredibly satisfying, and logic defying and it was great and and but I often it’s a curse. I can’t just watch stuff, right? Like I’m thinking about like other I’m trying to watch it with like four different sets of eyes at the same time, right, like different people’s perspectives. And I’m, I’m also taking notes up here right and I’m looking at it from lots of different but the movies frantic enough that it was it was hard to do that i’m mostly enjoying it. It was good. Very fast, didn’t give me much time to process anything. in a way it was good

Link Keller 28:54
it I mean, if it felt similar to maybe even more so than spider-verse, but the the like the animators want you to like not catch everything. Because then you come back and you catch it and you get that moment of being like, Oh, that’s so cool. And so I think that this movie leaned into that idea of being like, Look, we’re on Netflix, everybody’s kind of at home watching Netflix like let’s give them a movie that they can really chew on for a couple of viewings depending on how into that your kids are

Josué Cardona 29:29
Yeah, I loved it didn’t make you think about the like other I mean, that’s the thing right like up until a spider-verse like there was no other movie that looked that way and now we have two movies that like though I can I can barely compare it to anything else. I can’t stop thinking about Spider-Man.

Link Keller 29:46
It’s it’s got a lot of overlap with Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, but I haven’t actually seen that movie. So I can’t speak to like the detailed aspects of it. There is definitely overlap in those. And then Gravity Falls is another one where you can see I can see how Gravity Falls has influenced some of the jokes,

Josué Cardona 30:08
no that one would definitely be like a feeling the DreamWorks films? I don’t, I don’t know, I think I think the animation is different enough. They get in again like it’s so like, Oh, this is the studio that made the spider-verse or this company is copying the studio that made spider-verse. Or like I didn’t even have to look it up. I’m like, I’m pretty damn sure that this is the same. I don’t think that any other.

Link Keller 30:34

Josué Cardona 30:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I’m pretty sure no other company is capable of doing this yet. Other people, you know, it’s uh, yeah. It’s also very funny to go. It’s like when you when you think of Toy Story. And we still reference Toy Story like it looks amazing. And you go back and you see it. You know why? That does not look that good. was a long time ago.

Link Keller 30:59
a long time ago! that was a long time ago

Josué Cardona 31:00
A lot of those DreamWorks movies like they’re No. Yeah, I mean, they I mean, they look fine. They look good.

Link Keller 31:08
In Toy Story was the first 3d one? is that right?

Josué Cardona 31:12
I think it’s the first they made a big jump, right? Like there were other like 3d animated things. But I think it’s the first one like, like Pixar created new technology to do to do something like this. It probably the first full length 3d animated movie. Yeah, gotta pull it up.

Link Keller 31:31
pulling it up, It was the first entirely computer animated feature film.

Josué Cardona 31:38
Yeah, it made it made a leap.

Link Keller 31:40
That’s what I was thinking of.

Josué Cardona 31:42
Just the technology. Like, I’m watching stuff from like, the 90s. When I was like, what it’s like when we talk about like the PlayStation era games. That position one and, and two, right? And you look at those things.

Link Keller 31:55
You’re like, Oh, yeah, that was so cool. I loved that part. Oh, yeah

Josué Cardona 31:59
it was like it was the jump.

Link Keller 32:00
and then You see pictures and you’re like ick

Josué Cardona 32:01
I was like, Oh, 16 bit and we’re like, no, now. You know, everything has changed. We’re at this other level now. And then when you see it now you’re like, looks disgusting. Why did we think that was better than 16? bit right? That goes to it was a huge shift. But in in CGI, it’s the same way. Take the advent children you watch the Advent Children recently. So that movie, right it does not the animation.

Link Keller 32:23
i did

Josué Cardona 32:24
The detail does not look like the remake. Final Fantasy seven remake looks way better than Advent Children does. And I’m really curious that they’re 4k now. And I’m wonder how much better it’s gonna look because the Final Fantasy 15 movie, Kings glave looks amazing. Like, like, the animation is like, like now like top tier like, you know, hyper realistic looking stuff. But it looks very Final Fantasy, but it’s beautiful. But yeah, going back. It’s it’s those types of things like the Toy Story. And I’m having children or two that I’ve tried to revisit recently. I’m like, what, but a lot of it is those small. It is like the sometimes it’s just the lack of detail, like you’re looking at here. Like, it’s not just the choppiness, right? Or of like, even like, Oh, this isn’t as like, it’s not even smooth, right? It’s not even that it’s, it’s like it’s so basic. You look at toy story four versus Toy Story one. How did I know it’s the same thing? But there is enough of a difference? Yeah, it’s a huge, but this is just beautiful, right? They’re like, you know what, this world isn’t beautiful enough. Let’s add 2d drawings on it is and also mix stuff in simultaneous. It’s so good. That’s it looks so good.

Link Keller 33:42
It’s a playground of fun times and is It’s lovely. I love I love that aspect it not only because it looks so cool. But it really adds to the theming of talking about how different these family members are from each other. And yet, they go together. And I love having that reflected in the art style as well. You know, all their faces are all very distinctly designed. They look related to each other, but they all have like very individual character designs, like top tier ones, by the way. I love that I love I love in animation when we get to see you know, exaggerated features and stuff that are not realistic. But the stylization adds, like so much to it.

Josué Cardona 34:31
Yeah, no, no. Well, if you hadn’t noticed, we think it’s a good looking movie. I think it Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, I mean, I’m fortunate enough to be able to see it like 4k HDR the whole thing. I’m like, Ah, it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. It helps. Yeah, there was a there’s a part when the father I think it was a father at the end when he said like, I can finally See the world the way you see it? Which is when it really hit me like, oh, like we’re seeing the whole movie is kind of in many ways seeing it. Like it’s, it’s her flair. But it’s something you just said makes you think. Do you think it’s it’s also Do you think there’s elements of that mixing from the others also?

Link Keller 35:25
Yeah, like the parts where they do the flashback to the old house that dad built. And when he was like having to say goodbye to something that was his dream and and having to choose his family over that, that the way that that area looks. And the way that he moves through those areas felt distinct from the way that she saw him in the family home and the way he moved through those areas. I don’t know that we necessarily got so much from mom or Aaron. But definitely I guess there were a couple of parts when when they were on the road trip that felt a little bit more angled towards them. But not as not quite as distinct as that. Yeah, it was definitely

Josué Cardona 36:14
like they’re the artists, Aaron and mom. They think they’re drawing on cardboard, just letters and things like I was trying to think of like other opportunities to be creative. It’s like mom’s cupcakes, right? Look, not appealing. Yeah, yeah. And okay, again, that’s one of the things I’m have to look back and see. Because I’m trying to remember when we did see those flashbacks.

Link Keller 36:46
There were also other parts were just like they were, you know, looking back when she was younger, and everything is like they they had a different vibe going on. So it’s sort of visual denoted that we were doing a flashback. That’s kind of cool.

Josué Cardona 37:01
alright What else is on your list? Is that it? I think I think I covered everything I wanted to cover about the movie. What else did I mentioned that it’s fun, and I think people should watch it. And then it looks really good that I mentioned those things. Okay,

Link Keller 37:22
it’s fun. It looks really good. Okay, what else do I want to I want to touch on that Katie is at the end of the movie, she is dating a girl. So we’ve got some queer representation there. Yay. also adds to the whole her feeling like she doesn’t fit in in the beginning and that nobody gets her like that adds an extra vibe to it when the queerness becomes clear. Um, what else? Okay, I guess I guess my, my biggest critique is that I felt that they over over-softened. The Mark Bowman, pal CEO character and his relationship to the technology and the technology, his relationship to other people. I get that it wasn’t the purpose of the movie. The purpose of the movie was focusing on the family. And the aspect about talking about social media and our maybe over reliance on social media and technology was secondary themes to the family themes. But I felt like they made maybe a cowardly choice in making the bad guy was not the CEO. It was the robot itself distinct from him. He was just as surprised as everybody else

Josué Cardona 38:58
they made very clear statements, and again, the fact that he’s a mark, right, and is like, Oh, is that not a Mark Zuckerberg reference? Right? He literally

Link Keller 39:11
I mean, that was the other thing is the choice like voiced by Eric Andre, which is great, but the choice to make that character the super powerful CEO of a multi bazillionaire Oh,

Josué Cardona 39:23
I’ll get into the race part.

Link Keller 39:25
Not a white dude. Maybe an interesting, intentional choice. that I was Not super pleased. But that’s Yeah, that’s that’s like my biggest complaint is basically I felt like low key This movie has a little bit of propaganda where it’s all like, Yeah, actually, like, apple is good and Facebook is good. And, like, if it goes bad, like it’s, it’s because like, you know, like, one robot is going to get upset and like, I don’t know it. It felt a little too cheesy for me. I do understand that that was like I said, not the focus so i get why they did not prioritize that aspect

Josué Cardona 40:04
I disagree i think that they attacked the tech industry hard within the, the tone of the movie, right? Like nothing here is very serious, everything is playful. So even the things that are the most important everything is kind of in a family movie children’s movie way like nothing. There’s nothing here is traumatic, nothing here, nobody here gets hurt, right? Like, people are going through physical things that would people would die. Right? And nobody, nobody even gets a scratch on them. Right? Like everything, everything is played for jokes. And I feel it within that they they went off like they were explicit in like, Oh, this is like, this is dangerous. Right? It’s almost like playing out some of those fears. But I think that, like at the end that he’s not in jail, there’s no like, there’s no consequences. We don’t we don’t know. And like three weeks later, the whole world is apparently back to normal. You know, everything is cool. So I mean, that fits into the tone of the of the film in a way. But I was surprised. I think it went farther than I expected it to, in terms of that. Yeah. I think it could have I mean, it could have gone further, right. But it went further than even thought.

Link Keller 40:08
i wanted a little further,

Josué Cardona 41:27
I can imagine. I can imagine my niece watching that, who’s 10-11 years old, or even my nephew. And when the guys like, maybe I shouldn’t have done this, right. Like maybe That was a problem. The Father’s like, yeah, I could see my nephew like yelling at the screen. Like, yeah, that’s not a good thing. And then, you know, me feeling like why one day, maybe, maybe, maybe he’ll take down Facebook, you know, maybe he’ll maybe my nephew will be the one. I don’t know how to do it.

Link Keller 41:59
You know, as as he’s drifting off to sleep. destroy capitalism

Josué Cardona 42:02
So So. Yeah. So I mean, I don’t think it i think i think it went it did more. And I’m surprised by when, like a Netflix show has a Netflix dig. Right. like Netflix is like also a giant company that’s using people’s data, right for their nobody’s as evil as Facebook. And I hope you know, I have I have I I wish ill upon Facebook numerous times a day. And yeah. Yeah, just like just like a special. You know, it’s like, it’s like you have a club.

Link Keller 42:46
Facebook has the Facebook has the special aspect of like, from its inception, it was kind of gross.

Josué Cardona 42:54
Like when you have like a girlfriend, right? You’re all doing something and then someone comes in and like just goes to art and embarrasses everybody else. Like, oh, we’re all like, I think I think that’s Facebook, right? They’re all like, yo, like, we’re trying to make money. We’re trying to say it’s like you take it too far. Like, why did you Why did you do that? You’re making the rest of us look bad. We’d be able to get away with so much for making the rest of Facebook. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But now and i don’t i don’t understand this part. When at the end, they said, Oh, the real Mitchell family and then they showed pictures of this real Mitchell family. I have no idea what that is. I haven’t looked it up. But yeah, the family who saves the world is white. The, the, the what is the poseys would be the antagonist. Family. Right? Like they’re not they’re not the bad guys. They’re not villains. something different, like, you know, there’s like an antagonistic relationship. It just supposed to be the opposite in many ways. And at the end, at the end, they make them look stupid, right? It’s a it’s like, the whole like, I’ll follow you on Instagram. You know, it’s like, they’re not supposed to. There’s no, there’s no redeeming qualities in them. Right? They’re they’re a joke also, and then the villain who I understand that you were just saying like, they offset the the villain role in a way from like, they took the responsibility on and they put it on pal instead of on, on mark, but like, Mark like, more, caused all of this right? Yeah, yeah, no, that’s true. But like mark caused this and yeah, and people.

Link Keller 44:34
Well, yeah, what they what? And that’s part of it too, is instead of it being like, it’s not just one person. It is a series of systems that are required to cause suffering in order to do well. But having it be it’s, it’s, it’s just pal, the one whose voice we hear or it’s just mark the CEO Who is the face of the company? Instead of being like, No, no, no, no one person is responsible.

Josué Cardona 45:07
I feel like because of the way that he’s cruel to pal. To me, it’s like they’re telegraphing that this is. Look, what happens if you’re cruel to even even machines have feelings, right? If I’m trying to see it from from that perspective. And, like, I think I think the only like, you can even say that pal has like that story where she’s like, oh, like, I thought I mattered to you. And then you discarded me. And you, you replaced me, you, you had me built my replacement. She’s makes that joke about like, like, you designed my replacement on my face. And then the way he just threw, like, she actually, she has a story where she’s actually hurt. Like, we can understand her, like,

Link Keller 45:51
just tossed her.

Josué Cardona 45:52
No, there’s no depth to the reason why Mark created these death machines. Right? Or like he caused the apocalypse. And he and he, you know, he knows it. But yeah.

Link Keller 46:10
I have the quote. It’s almost like stealing people’s data and giving it to a hyper intelligent AI as part of an unregulated tech monopoly was a bad thing!

Josué Cardona 46:19
to the point I was trying to make now. The, you know, the heroes are a white family. The antagonistic, the antagonist family is not white and the villain is, is also not white. And he can’t unsee you can’t unsee that. Yeah. So I don’t understand why the Mitchell but what’s the real Mitchell? thing at the end?

Link Keller 46:52
So I think, and I was googling to try and confirm this, but I think what it is is since the director, director and co writer, Mike rianda,

Josué Cardona 47:10
the voice of Isn’t he the voice of Aaron? Yeah,

Link Keller 47:13
I don’t know. I apologize if I mispronounce. He is the voice of Aaron. And I think it’s his family. Because then they show the voice actors’ family. Like Danny McBride sitting with his his wife and children and stuff like that. So I think that’s what it is. But I’m turns out if you just Google the real Mitchell’s image doesn’t do anything.

Josué Cardona 47:35
Yeah. I mean, and maya Rudolph is in white, and then the character looks more like my Rudolph than not. But yeah, so I mean, you know, there could be some brown ambiguity in some characters. There. but all your antagonists are people of color

Link Keller 47:57
Yeah, there’s some ambiguity of brownness. But if your one like explicitly black dude

Josué Cardona 48:07

Link Keller 48:08
is the bad guy. It’s questionable. it should have been questioned.

Josué Cardona 48:13
I’ve come to accept that, you know, what, if I’m drawing a character, if I’m writing a character, I understand that my first instinct might be to make that character like me. I understand that, that goes on to the like, the hero part. It doesn’t translate to the villain part, right? Like, there’s no why what what is the choices that you made? For a moment at the end? I was like, oh, they’re real Mitchell. Like, okay, does this explain the the racism I’m seeing throughout the entire movie? Is this like, Is this like, based on a true story? And there’s an actual mark, that was like, did something and they were like, what? No, no, I don’t know. This isn’t? Yeah. No. Okay,

Link Keller 49:02
okay. I have it. it is the directors family.

Josué Cardona 49:08

Link Keller 49:09
so he he base up but yes, he based on these characters off his own family

Josué Cardona 49:14
Poseys and mark on.

Link Keller 49:21
Well, I’m gonna say the voice actors that played these characters

Josué Cardona 49:27
Yeah, no,

Link Keller 49:28
that’s true. Just a one to one reference. And then, and then you like, I know how common the name mark is, but like, that was a choice. That was a choice. Like, definitely a zuckerberg situation

Josué Cardona 49:43
that’s why I think like, at the very least, poking fun, right, like, like, I think their position is very clear on it, but even even the whole thing with monchi munchie monchi. Right. Yeah. Even even though That is like it. That’s a good dig. It’s a

Link Keller 50:03

Josué Cardona 50:03
Oh yeah, no. Computers are stupid. Like they are not able, like they’re impressive at some things and other things are like, yeah.

Link Keller 50:13
Even I can’t tell pugs. I can’t even I can’t tell pugs apart from loaves of bread sometimes they’re very similar.

Josué Cardona 50:21
Yeah. Again, fun, but definitely worth pointing out. Ah, in case you didn’t notice. now you know, if you didn’t know, now ya know. Okay. I’m sure we covered all the points now on on the phenomenon of the week.

Link Keller 50:50
Yeah, I think that was all of all of the main thoughts that I had. I hope that Yeah, people will come into the discord and tell me their opinions about this movie, i always appreciate that.

Josué Cardona 51:03
you can find All sorts of stuff on discord. And our other community spaces you can find information on in the show notes. For more Geek Therapy, visit Geek therapy.org thanks so much for listening. Remember to geek out and do good I’ll be back next week. I can’t take the pressure. Don’t Don’t bring it up. I’m not

Link Keller 51:25
our 300th episode

Josué Cardona 51:27
it’s too much pressure. Bye

Link Keller 51:31
wee woo wee woo. mbye!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Characters / Media
  • Katie / The Mitchells vs. the Machines
  • Aaron / The Mitchells vs. the Machines
  • Spider-man: Into the Spider-Verse
  • Toy Story
  • Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children
  • Social media platforms
Themes / Topics

Conversation Topics:

* Change
* Family
* Feeling alone
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* Guilt
* Making new friends
* Strong female role models
* Working with others

Relatable Experience:

* Coming of age/Getting older
* Loss (other than death)
* Moving
* New Life Event (New Rules)
* Separation
* Other: Someone Yucked Your Yum

Questions? Comments? Discuss this episode on the GT Forum.

Links / Social Media

Check out the GT Network: network.geektherapy.com

GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.org

GT Discord: geektherapy.com/discord

GT Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/geektherapy

Find us at www.GeekTherapy.org | @GeekTherapy | Lara: @GeekTherapist | Link: @CHICKENDINOSAUR | Josué: @JosueACardona

Ask us anything through the Question Queue and we’ll answer on the show: geektherapy.org/qq

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